POE2 disrespecting our time (Post-0.4.0)

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GabrielCorso#5386 a écrit :

Thing is, GGG is competing against other games, not against pure boredom.

There's a threshold, and it's much higher in PoE 1 but still very present, where it's more enjoyable to drop their games and go do something else, even if you still feel like playing ARPGs.

GGG doesn't see the clear drop-off points in their design where players opt out, not because they're done with the game, gameplay or genre, but because they get fed up with menial bullshit and busywork.

PoE 2 SSF is more busywork than learning valuable skills IRL, let that sink in.

Simple games can afford to be boring, but to be boring and needlessly complex is a big mistake on a seasonal model.

Something is wrong when players drop your "King of ARPGs" to play D2 for the millionth time.

The most dangerous thing for a live-service game is when the player realizes their time is being harvested rather than respected.

You hit the nail on the head: GGG is not competing in a vacuum. When a player decides that playing a 25-year-old game like D2 is more rewarding than fighting the "busywork" of PoE 2, your modern design has officially failed. Complexity should be a tool for depth, not a barrier to entry or a way to pad out play hours.

The "King of ARPGs" title is not a permanent shield against bad decisions. If the seasonal model becomes synonymous with "doing your chores," players will simply opt out. GGG seems to think that if they make the game tedious enough, it becomes "hardcore," but all they’re actually doing is pushing people toward games that understand the difference between a challenge and a second job.

A game that is more stressful than real-world work isn't an escape; it's a mistake.

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TwitchGLHFsport#2155 a écrit :

POE2 having checkpoints is a nice addition, in some maps I think there should me more.

There might be inconsistencies with how the maps are generating and some lack enough checkpoints.

Checkpoints are a band-aid fix for a deeper problem: poor zone pacing and inconsistent map generation.

While adding more checkpoints helps, it doesn't solve the fact that some maps are generated as massive, empty corridors where nothing happens for minutes. If a map layout is so poorly optimized that you feel the need for a checkpoint every two screens, then the map generation itself is flawed.

The inconsistencies you're seeing aren't just accidents; they are a sign of a procedural generation system that hasn't been tuned for the slower movement speed of PoE 2. Relying on a lucky checkpoint placement to make a map "playable" is not a solution. GGG needs to stop building zones that feel like empty marathons and start focusing on density and meaningful layout design.

A "checkpoint" shouldn't be a reward for surviving a boring walk; it should be a functional tool in a tightly designed combat environment.

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Ondrugs#1147 a écrit :

I know I may risk being muted again, but I need to say that your comment seems quite disconnected from reality as I see it.

I don’t think you recognize the amount of irony and confusion in what you’ve said.

Name me 1 (objectively) game, in its genre, that is able to hold a candle to PoE 2 at the moment and please make it difficult.

Asking for a game that "holds a candle" to PoE 2 is a classic deflection. A game doesn't have to be objectively more complex to be a better experience; it just has to respect the player's time.

If you want names, Last Epoch has objectively better crafting and trade/SSF systems that don't require a PhD or a third-party website to navigate. Grim Dawn has better world-building and meaningful exploration without the empty walking simulator gaps. Even D4, for all its flaws, understands that a campaign should be played once, not forced down your throat every time you want to try a new build.

But the real irony is yours: You think PoE 2's only competition is other ARPGs. In reality, PoE 2 is competing against every other hobby that doesn't feel like a second job. When players go back to D2, a 25-year-old game, they aren't looking for better graphics; they are looking for a game that lets them actually play instead of doing "busywork" for 8 hours a day.

Being the most complex game in the room doesn't matter if the room is empty because everyone got fed up with the friction. Blindly defending the lack of competition is how developers get lazy and games die.

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mattia2103#3008 a écrit :

Agree with every single point. Having to do the story again is less of a big deal to me personally, but I’d appreciate it if the experience was a bit smoother. Having to load a new zone just to be told that the Halani Gates are closed is annoying. Or being told by Una in the woods to meet her in Clearfell after the shade was freed, only to be sent right back to where I was. Surely there are better ways to tell the story. I'm completely fine with an option to skip the story though. It'd be optional.

The "back-and-forth" quest design isn't storytelling; it's just artificial padding to inflate play hours.

When a game forces you to load a zone just to see a closed gate or sends you across the map only to tell you to go back exactly where you started, it's not "immersive"—it's disrespectful. It shows that GGG prioritizes keeping you in the game longer over making sure the time you spend in it is actually engaging.

Even if someone doesn't mind the campaign, there's no excuse for such clunky pacing in 2026. These "fetch quest" loops belong in an MMO from 2004, not in the supposed king of modern ARPGs. Pushing for an optional campaign skip isn't about being lazy; it's about wanting the developers to realize that the value of their game is in its combat and systems, not in forcing us to be a glorified delivery boy for NPCs.

Smooth gameplay shouldn't be a luxury; it should be the baseline.

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GabrielCorso#5386 a écrit :

Thing is, GGG is competing against other games, not against pure boredom.

There's a threshold, and it's much higher in PoE 1 but still very present, where it's more enjoyable to drop their games and go do something else, even if you still feel like playing ARPGs.

GGG doesn't see the clear drop-off points in their design where players opt out, not because they're done with the game, gameplay or genre, but because they get fed up with menial bullshit and busywork.

PoE 2 SSF is more busywork than learning valuable skills IRL, let that sink in.

Simple games can afford to be boring, but to be boring and needlessly complex is a big mistake on a seasonal model.

Something is wrong when players drop your "King of ARPGs" to play D2 for the millionth time.

+1 my thoughts exactly

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Japonbu#0742 a écrit :

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TOP_BOMJIK#4977 a écrit :

there is no challenge , there sacrifice of grinding part to uplift trading part its no challenge , its player disrespect in order to shoehorn the "vision" in

Using the top 0.1% of the ladder to justify a broken system is just survivorship bias. Just because a pro can grind through the friction doesn't mean the design is good; it just means they have more free time than you.

Grind is not a skill check. Making SSF loot identical to Trade isn't "challenging," it's just a way to force players into a market they don't want to be in. If your definition of a "challenge league" is just a test of who can tolerate boredom the longest, then you're not playing a game—you're just participating in a war of attrition.

Stop confusing tediousness with difficulty.

its not about players its about ggg approach to loot and crafting material rate, they took trading league as base line when trading NEVER should be considered as baseline of how game drops items and how often, you cant beat casino with skill.