What happened to Engaging Combat? Video Feedback.

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etc418#2590 a écrit :

Just have 10x less enemies, that are 10x stronger, so that you have to CC them, dodge their attacks etc. Make their drop rates appropriately higher to keep the sense of progression.

Add roadblocks in endgame. Don't make progression too smooth. It's fun to farm for a bit to overcome a big boss and move to the next "tier" where you can again get better loot for the next roadblock.

Aside from restoring the gameplay mechanics that make this game good, this also gives purpose to single target damage VS AoE damage VS cc-focused builds etc. Greatly increasing the variety of ways you can approach the endgame while giving your build clear strengths and weaknesses.

At the same time I'm in favor of preventing recursive spells that fill the sceen with shit. Like fireballs spawning more fireballs spawning more fireballs. It's fun fireworks for an hour, but gets boring really fast. It's for sure not what ARPG is for normies like me.

Can you not imagine anything beyond the mistakes of the past?

This.

They now either need to rework 3/4 of their skills OR rework monsters. No other option available. Current systems are not compatible.
I hope they'll decide to rework the monsters. We'll see where the EA will end up.

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KäsePizza#3007 a écrit :

I would have wanted a slower, more methodical game - maybe in your view that's not an ARPG and maybe it shouldn't be called PoE2 then. For me it still would be.

My point is an ARPG is a game that exponentially more monsters appear and the more damage you start doing in more area. The combat pacing breaks at a point where you need to outstat everything because the common scenarios in lategame do not allow for skill based counterplay. This isn't a design choice, it is just inevitably what happens when you scale things more and more.

Lowering the ceiling of how it scales is just lowering the available options. If you want to play a slower game, there could be a better campaign/ early prog system, and there are ways to make that fun (with friends/community/challenges). You don't miss out on the content, and if you really want to push to do something like Arbiter you can do that without a ridiculous build. If you just cut off the top-end of the game then there is no way to access it otherwise, the players who prefer having strong characters in return for their efforts grinding have no game.

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Nikuksis#6962 a écrit :

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etc418#2590 a écrit :

Just have 10x less enemies, that are 10x stronger, so that you have to CC them, dodge their attacks etc. Make their drop rates appropriately higher to keep the sense of progression.

Add roadblocks in endgame. Don't make progression too smooth. It's fun to farm for a bit to overcome a big boss and move to the next "tier" where you can again get better loot for the next roadblock.

Aside from restoring the gameplay mechanics that make this game good, this also gives purpose to single target damage VS AoE damage VS cc-focused builds etc. Greatly increasing the variety of ways you can approach the endgame while giving your build clear strengths and weaknesses.

At the same time I'm in favor of preventing recursive spells that fill the sceen with shit. Like fireballs spawning more fireballs spawning more fireballs. It's fun fireworks for an hour, but gets boring really fast. It's for sure not what ARPG is for normies like me.

Can you not imagine anything beyond the mistakes of the past?

This.

They now either need to rework 3/4 of their skills OR rework monsters. No other option available. Current systems are not compatible.
I hope they'll decide to rework the monsters. We'll see where the EA will end up.

You hear "10x stronger enemies" and say "this". I really don't think you'd enjoy that game either. What do you think happens when they make them 10x stronger? Are they going to make us dodge everything or get one shot? Probably not, so we are going to get a lot more hp, the mobs are going to have a lot more hp. And at the end of the day you still have the same problem that scaling those monsters will get to too much for combat to be intentionally paced regardless, but instead it feels like you are hitting each other with wet noodles.

The way loot works as well, I don't think you understand how much trash is dropping for you to get the items that you want. "give them 10x rewards and spawn 10x less of them" doesn't work like you think.

The late game is more about having a powerful character and grinding gear than skill-based combat, and that's fine. The company's name is Grinding Gear Games

For sure it shouldn't be the exact x10 numbers.
But more or less the way to balance. Of course theres TONS of balancing job. And not only numbers adjustments.

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Nikuksis#6962 a écrit :

For sure it shouldn't be the exact x10 numbers.
But more or less the way to balance. Of course theres TONS of balancing job. And not only numbers adjustments.

It would simply be the same problem on less of a scale and feel worse to play.

All for the sake of extending pacing that already exists in enough of the game, and deleting the top-end for most of the people who play all the time.

Most people sign up for late-game ARPG to grind and get a powerful character and kill lots of monsters. When I have 100s of div invested in my character I don't want to be playing tic-tac-toe with 15 separate white mobs and 1 rare a map. I highly doubt you would see the point either if you got to experience this vision.

The combat pacing and fidelity is not great after a point but the skill is expressed in different ways, it is less about dodging everything and more about consistently good positioning/ movement combined with your character's overall power through your knowledge of the game or deductive reasoning when it comes to your own choices through the character building process.

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AverBeg7#1689 a écrit :

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Nikuksis#6962 a écrit :

For sure it shouldn't be the exact x10 numbers.
But more or less the way to balance. Of course theres TONS of balancing job. And not only numbers adjustments.

It would simply be the same problem on less of a scale and feel worse to play.

All for the sake of extending pacing that already exists in enough of the game, and deleting the top-end for most of the people who play all the time.

Most people sign up for late-game ARPG to grind and get a powerful character and kill lots of monsters. When I have 100s of div invested in my character I don't want to be playing tic-tac-toe with 15 separate white mobs and 1 rare a map. I highly doubt you would see the point either if you got to experience this vision.

The combat pacing and fidelity is not great after a point but the skill is expressed in different ways, it is less about dodging everything and more about consistently good positioning/ movement combined with your character's overall power through your knowledge of the game or deductive reasoning when it comes to your own choices through the character building process.

There are people who want the zoom from an ARPG, there are people who don't. The thing is you keep saying most want this or that, while we have 0 statistics or anything relevant that says so. Just cause the large streamers that bring the fans from PoE1 obviously want the zoom, there might be just as big a fanbase for a slower engaging combat ARPG. We just don't know, cause there is not game that does this right now. At least not that I know of.

Also consistently good positioning is just a joke, people just run through maps killing everything around them for the most part.

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KäsePizza#3007 a écrit :

There are people who want the zoom from an ARPG, there are people who don't.

Yes, and you can experience an intentionally paced game throughout most of your experience through content, and then be powerful and find insane items in an endless loop that is completely optional. You are removing the option for people to play the insanely scaled endless loop, when the pacing you like can be experienced at your leisure regardless.

In the top-end where people spend many hours on one character, they want to feel that character is powerful. There is no sense of progression if the threat is always the same, or if the monsters have millions of HP when they are not a boss.

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KäsePizza#3007 a écrit :

The thing is you keep saying most want this or that, while we have 0 statistics or anything relevant that says so. Just cause the large streamers that bring the fans from PoE1 obviously want the zoom, there might be just as big a fanbase for a slower engaging combat ARPG. We just don't know, cause there is not game that does this right now. At least not that I know of.

Also consistently good positioning is just a joke, people just run through maps killing everything around them for the most part.

Once you get your character to the point of being powerful, you expect to be able to murder things. It is the same for everyone. It is disappointing to continue to struggle against every mob forever despite your progress. You want to feel you have made something strong at the end of it all. Again, I really don't think you would even like this game you envision. It sounds really nice to have extremely engaging combat until you experience what that means in an arpg with 1 try maps and -10% xp with dozens of encounters and you just want to play the game.

Yes, positioning and movement matters. If you play endgame you will know when you get sleepy or something you die a lot more. You are avoiding stuff and switching targets all the time. Especially against abyss monsters this league. They are dangerous and wire you into the map. Pretty much always against bosses. Sure, if you spend 100d+ you can get a build that destroys late game bosses, but should it not at that point? What is SSF and newbies meant to do if the game is impossible for them?

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AverBeg7#1689 a écrit :

Yes, and you can experience an intentionally paced game throughout most of your experience through content, and then be powerful and find insane items in an endless loop that is completely optional. You are removing the option for people to play the insanely scaled endless loop, when the pacing you like can be experienced at your leisure regardless.

Not true, the only time that was true was in 0.1 for around the first act till Geonor. Everything is extremely easy now, I don't know what any boss in act 4 does. No idea what their abilities are whatsoever.

As for the zoom zoom, PoE1, LE, and others are what you're looking for. They said they want PoE2 to be different, and they should get back on that course. Many people want it too. The Top comment on Dreamcore's video is showing that sentiment.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 a écrit :

Not true, the only time that was true was in 0.1 for around the first act till Geonor.

As for the zoom zoom, PoE1, LE, and others are what you're looking for. They said they want PoE2 to be different, and they should get back on that course. Many people want it too. The Top comment on Dreamcore's video is showing that sentiment.

how are you zooming through the campaign with no movement speed or movement skills my guy. it is not zoomy at all. maybe some bosses need a bit of a buff but it is very well paced mostly imo

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AverBeg7#1689 a écrit :

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IonSugeRau1#1069 a écrit :

Not true, the only time that was true was in 0.1 for around the first act till Geonor.

As for the zoom zoom, PoE1, LE, and others are what you're looking for. They said they want PoE2 to be different, and they should get back on that course. Many people want it too. The Top comment on Dreamcore's video is showing that sentiment.

how are you zooming through the campaign with no movement speed or movement skills my guy. it is not zoomy at all. maybe some bosses need a bit of a buff but it is very well paced mostly imo

Maybe you forgot that they introduced sprint? Couple that with you being able to kill everything before they can even get their moves off + the ridiculous extra packs of monsters... If that's your idea of engaging combat idk what to tell you... you need to pick up a proper game and play it for a change.