The Slow Removal of Consequences in PoE2

It's important to note that a 6 mod waystone still has only 1 chance.
These types of waystones are the ones that you should be using to farm anyway so nothing has really changed.
I don't see how allowing players to enjoy endgame on a casual level is wrong.
The need for more pinnacle boss encounters might be indicative of something else entirely. In my opinion, the current map system is what causes players to feel the need for the pinnacle bosses to be more available to fight. It achieves it by being lackluster and more of a chore than anything else.
If you make mapping more rewarding then the pinnacle bosses will be a cherry on top during the endgame.
Going back to the changes that are coming up and your comments...
If doing level 0 pinnacle boss means that you you need a great amount of luck to drop any of the chase items does it really matter for a sweaty gamer that everyone can do it? It was even said that the level 4 pinnacle fights will be harder now and have a higher chance for good drops.
So people allergic to grass will still be rewarded with being sweaty and causals will be able to enjoy the game - which I think is the reason we all play games, right?
Also, it's a PvE game why the heck do you care what casuals do...
You want a challenge? Go distill your waystones with 150% deli and corrupt them so they have 8 suffixes.

Looking at the problems from a game creator/designer point of view. Wouldn't you want your player base to enjoy the game you made?

None of the 'core mechanics'(how the heck did you even end up with a conclusion that these are core mechs is beyond the scope of the universe) that you mentioned are even what this game is about...
exploding corpse is not a mechanic, a zooming monster that pushes you all across the screen could maybe be considered a mechanic.
More tries with pinnacle boss fight could be mitigated by making them more available and making mapping more smooth - like mentioned before - so this could be explored again
Let casuals enjoy the game and make sweaty gaming more rewarding is the perfect balance.
Don't you want more people to take less favorable deals on the trade market as well?
If there are only sweaty gamers playing who will buy your mediocre gear?

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N3vangel#0037 a écrit :

Look at what’s already happened:
• Boss HP was nerfed because average builds couldn’t kill them.
• On-death effects were removed because they didn’t “feel good.”
• Monster pushback was scrapped because players didn’t like losing control.
• Map boss fights went from 1 portal to 6 because failing didn’t feel fair.

These weren’t balance fixes. They were core mechanics being walked back — not because they were broken, but because they caused discomfort.

No, they were changed because they were bad decisions from the start.

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Boss HP was nerfed because average builds couldn’t kill them

Boss HP was nerfed because most skills are crap and, most important, with the 500k limit they want to aim for skills it would take forever, even with a good skill.

If you listened to the conversation you would know that.

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On-death effects were removed because they didn’t “feel good.”

They suck because it's a huge clustefck.

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Monster pushback was scrapped because players didn’t like losing control.

Pushback is aweful. Tinny mobs can slap you around like in a WWE match. I was once pushed by a mob for almost 10 seconds. I might have that on video. My friends were laughing while watching.

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Map boss fights went from 1 portal to 6 because failing didn’t feel fair.

This is PoE2. Portals are part of the series and if they want to cut off the strings with the original then call it some other things.
The way it was it had triple punishment. Losing the map(with their modifiers), losing the loot it could/did drop and losing XP.



Edit: Let me add this. I always say one thing, players should play the game because it is fun to play and not because you need to. The state of game is bad and they need to change a lot of things for it to be fun.

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fouquet#0993 a écrit :

I am not being challenged, I am being disrespected and annoyed. It is why I stopped playing and returned to PoE1. I don't plan on coming back until major changes happen (0.20 doesn't count). They wasted my time and their own and now they have significantly less players who are willing to test their crap design choices with 3 months between updates.

My thoughts exactly!

After hit lv. 93 I started feeling not being challenged, my time was just being wasted by unnecessary hurdles (map prep, one portal, constant bad map layouts etc).

Just stopped playing and don't see why would comeback to 0.2.0 without major changes that rewards time invested in the game.

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TIGRElaranja#2163 a écrit :

Edit: Let me add this. I always say one thing, players should play the game because it is fun to play and not because you need to. The state of game is bad and they need to change a lot of things for it to be fun.

That!

I want to play a game because it is fun, even when hard/challenging (Souls game, Hollow Knight, Celeste, Super Meat Boy...). When the game isn't fun because was poor developed, the bear to make it fun is on the devs.

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Monster pushback was scrapped because players didn’t like losing control.

That's still in the game. ???????

a bunch of unskilled, loud clowns does not represent the community

I think encouraging a variety of builds would be, y'know, good. If everyone has to do meta or die, that's the opposite problem of too much friction.

Obviously what is the best balance is a matter of taste and the masses don't always get it right, but I'd be wary about worrying about smoothing the curve. If the top end is still sufficiently punishing such that it's still a small portion of the player base that can succeed BUT you allow access (even at reduced rates) to ALL players, you can at least try to make most people happy.

Min-maxers will still cling to meta because efficiency is their love language, but Average McAvergtons (like me) can at least trick ourselves into trying the base level difficulty 100x and roll with a lower chance of success but in a build that doesn't make me feel like a sheep.

That said, I do feel POE2 feels good to play, just has some scaling issues.

i think some scaling issue also boils down due to how the entire passive system works. where as in other games you'd increase your dmg very slowly, a few % at a time, in this game you get huge chunks at a time. like in other games you often can get by with wonky fun-builds simply with skill, because a little less dmg won't make a big deal, fine i'll have to hit the boss 2 more times, who cares. but in this game, the difference between lacking dmg and having great dmg is like day and night. even while leveling i constantly notice how i keep falling behind and then a new weapon drops and i'm completely op again. it's just overly spiky and if you don't know about that, and aren't much into theorycrafting yourself, you really can screw yourself over big time.
however this is easely fixable. just add some tutorial messages for new players or that, or just "spread general knowledge" within the playerbase. idk, i just think making more ppl aware how ridiculous the dmg scaling is in this game, unlike in any other game, combined with the weird way armour works, i'd guess at least some part of the criticism also stems from that?

about armour; before reduction applied: because armour is more potent at smaller hits, dealing 2*50 dmg is less than 1*100 dmg, meaning if you lack dmg you lack it twice. and if you add any type of DOTs to that equation, the DOT in itself will also be weaker due to the doubly thingy above, thus overall you are not just a little weaker, but big time which also is very unlike other games where typically DOT dmg is strictly seperated from direct dmg.

all that combined with the fact so bosses have "phases" that you might even skip/prevent if you deal just enough dmg, eh the difference eventually get's that large so it's just insane actually. lacking dmg it can take you 5min+ to kill a boss (not kidding, i did that), while if you have plenty dmg you may even prevent the phase-change altogether. this is not just some "10% more dmg = 10% less time", not at all.

You can always make your own build if you know what you are doing. Yes the meta builds are popular because they are the “best” at doing it but that also means the difference between killing the arbiter in 3 seconds vs 10 seconds. You can make a bunch of different builds and interesting combos as long as you know what you are doing. But, in no way should the game be balanced around someone with no experience just picking a skill and going around the tree in whatever way they want.

OP should go and play an actually hard game, like Dark Souls III or somesuch before he is allowed to strut around like some sort of pro-gamer when he is playing a game where you just hold down one button for minutes at a time while blowing up 50+ monsters per second.

The worst thing about PoE1 was that it was either HC (lol) or a "6 portal are my defenses" clown fiesta that actively rewarded players who die hundreds, often thousands of times over a character's lifespan, so they can just go as fast as possible 100% of the time and not give a damn about anything else. PoE2 is quickly devolving into the exact same slop, and if this slippery slope towards mimicking PoE1's most serious core failures continues, I don't really see what the point of making PoE2 a fully separate game was.