Warrior in a nutshell... I believe im done.

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mikeab79#3627 a écrit :

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chipninja#4276 a écrit :

GGG wants to "balance" things, which means they want to nerf builds. If you actually read the section where they said that, it boils down to "we wanted to nerf some things that were more powerful than expected, but strangely the community wanted us to wait."

... so basically what I said. GGG changed based on complainers.

Sir, this is a Wendy's. The pain olympics are that way ---->

Nerfing what actually works to play a game isn't "balance."

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chipninja#4276 a écrit :

Nerfing what actually works to play a game isn't "balance."

Nerfing overpowered things is balance. Sorry to inform you.

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mikeab79#3627 a écrit :

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chipninja#4276 a écrit :

Nerfing what actually works to play a game isn't "balance."

Nerfing overpowered things is balance. Sorry to inform you.

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mikeab79#3627 a écrit :

They know the Warrior is in a bad spot.

So are plenty of other classes and ascendencies. That's kind of the point.

Nerfs are a single, isolated, part of balancing. When people can tank bosses, get one-shot by white mobs, and nearly every class is experiencing some variation of those issues, it's not really balanced.

You've been here long enough to see how "balanced" things get after making changes based on a streamer's 200 Div build. It usually leaves the top 1% mostly untouched, while leaving the underlying mechanics in a horrible state for everyone else for at least a few leagues.

If you want to bring all the classes in line, perhaps it's best to figure out why some of them are having trouble first - then work on the outliers.

Making sure everyone has an equally garbage experience isn't the best way to go about things.

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chipninja#4276 a écrit :

If you want to bring all the classes in line, perhaps it's best to figure out why some of them are having trouble first - then work on the outliers.

Making sure everyone has an equally garbage experience isn't the best way to go about things.

Not sure, but I think you're implying that I think only nerfs are good for balance. Though from your statement, I should be implying you think only buffs should be used.

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mikeab79#3627 a écrit :

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chipninja#4276 a écrit :

If you want to bring all the classes in line, perhaps it's best to figure out why some of them are having trouble first - then work on the outliers.

Making sure everyone has an equally garbage experience isn't the best way to go about things.

Not sure, but I think you're implying that I think only nerfs are good for balance. Though from your statement, I should be implying you think only buffs should be used.

I'm not implying anything. I'm pointing to people who are frustrated playing in general.

The goal here is for GGG to get the game ready for an official launch, which would imply they are also attempting to find other customers willing to try out a F2P game and eventually spend money on MTX.

Ignoring the concerns and complaints of the players who have already shown willingness to pay to instead make things more difficult and frustrating is going to cause problems.

GGG seems to want to approach the process backwards. Right now, the baseline is in the dirt, with some outliers. If you push the outliers into the dirt as well, you're going to have more frustrated players, and when you actually start establishing a more unified baseline, you have to turn around and buff everything.

They're trying to jump to fine tuning before they've even dialed it in to the ballpark... as is evident by the number of people with complaints.

GGG's vision of balance has pretty much always hinged on heavily nerfing something based off streamers, rather than the average experience for everyone else. You've been here long enough to see that yourself - where entire mechanics are pointless to use for multiple leagues at a time. That doesn't set the stage for a successful official launch, does it?

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chipninja#4276 a écrit :

I'm not implying anything. I'm pointing to people who are frustrated playing in general.

The goal here is for GGG to get the game ready for an official launch, which would imply they are also attempting to find other customers willing to try out a F2P game and eventually spend money on MTX.

Ignoring the concerns and complaints of the players who have already shown willingness to pay to instead make things more difficult and frustrating is going to cause problems.

GGG seems to want to approach the process backwards. Right now, the baseline is in the dirt, with some outliers. If you push the outliers into the dirt as well, you're going to have more frustrated players, and when you actually start establishing a more unified baseline, you have to turn around and buff everything.

They're trying to jump to fine tuning before they've even dialed it in to the ballpark... as is evident by the number of people with complaints.

GGG's vision of balance has pretty much always hinged on heavily nerfing something based off streamers, rather than the average experience for everyone else. You've been here long enough to see that yourself - where entire mechanics are pointless to use for multiple leagues at a time. That doesn't set the stage for a successful official launch, does it?

Sorry for the assumption then.

I don't think the idea is to nerf stuff into the dirt. It appears they want, or wanted to, bring down things that over perform (Spark). While bringing up under performing things (Arc is terrible). The problem is the timeline and the amount of work needed to get stuff even in the ballpark. At this point, the best guess for this reset is about a month out. That would give us room for 2-3 balance passes before the game goes live. I agree, it doesn't leave much hope for a successful launch.

I get that they want to balance things in „bigger” patches, but goddamit is it so hard for the time being to delete affixes that punish too hard some classes? Even d4 devs got rid of affixes that was too strong. Just imagine as a warrior that you dont have to worry about temporal buble? That while you are slowed to a snail level you dont have to pray to god that nothing oneshots you while you are in the middle of casting sunder/hotg that are slowest skill on their own? Or why not get rid, or downplay the ability of monster stunning you so that you actually had a chance when monsters swarm you and stun to death which they easily do because they are fast like hell and you are meant to be at arms reach as a melee type character?

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mikeab79#3627 a écrit :

Sorry for the assumption then.

I don't think the idea is to nerf stuff into the dirt. It appears they want, or wanted to, bring down things that over perform (Spark). While bringing up under performing things (Arc is terrible). The problem is the timeline and the amount of work needed to get stuff even in the ballpark. At this point, the best guess for this reset is about a month out. That would give us room for 2-3 balance passes before the game goes live. I agree, it doesn't leave much hope for a successful launch.

No sweat, we're largely on the same page.

Having one build far outclass the others is clearly a problem, because at that point is suboptimal to run anything but.

GGG also has a history of being heavy handed and wrecking things. Right now, one of the biggest draws towards more OP setups is that other setups feel completely ineffective or paper thin. If ES & Evasion is the instant go-to, you've got to look at why, and the answer is everything else struggles to keep up.

Spark is ahead because it's covering the whole screen... which deals with the problem of being swarmed. It also wrecks the off-screen mobs that other ranged setups may be activating, but failing to kill.

There are other builds that could reach that performance. Fireball for example... except with Wildshards and forking you get a grinding server, assuming it doesn't crash out.

Along with that is every mob a screen or two in every direction... so RIP if it doesn't crash, RIP if it does.

And a lot of melee is just flat out stuck on top of ODEs and corpse explosions, with tanks that barely shrug anything off. It just feels horrible across the board... unless you're using something ridiculous like spark (I'm not btw).

People aren't going to want to play anything else until those things start to feel better. Nerfing spark is like nerfing drop rates to make the loot feel more compelling. It doesn't work. It's the same garbage, you just get even less to work with.

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chipninja#4276 a écrit :

People aren't going to want to play anything else until those things start to feel better. Nerfing spark is like nerfing drop rates to make the loot feel more compelling. It doesn't work. It's the same garbage, you just get even less to work with.

Let's say those "things" start to feel better. What make a person pick a skill that's not as powerful as one allowed to remain. Unless, we're swinging back around to only buffs, nothing will stop players from using Spark, other than a direct nerf.

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mikeab79#3627 a écrit :

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chipninja#4276 a écrit :

People aren't going to want to play anything else until those things start to feel better. Nerfing spark is like nerfing drop rates to make the loot feel more compelling. It doesn't work. It's the same garbage, you just get even less to work with.

Let's say those "things" start to feel better. What make a person pick a skill that's not as powerful as one allowed to remain. Unless, we're swinging back around to only buffs, nothing will stop players from using Spark, other than a direct nerf.

Just like every warrior uses HOTG. Simply because there is no other skill that does as much damage. And shoehorning to only one good skill is ridiculous.