Diablo 2 Creator David Brevik finds modern APRGs unengaging and 'kind of silly'
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I so loved D1 & D2 and I soooo agree with David Brevik that mass mowing swath of monster to litter screen of stuff which one cant even find out what it is not a cool experience.
And its not only that what the fun hauling that litter again and again to multiple vendors go gain meaningless stuff again? Simply all my gametime I am handling stuff that should engage me and be fun its that simple. Check out David Brevik pod cast at video gamer he so nails it what APRGs fail to deliver this includes Diablo 4. Dernier bump le 11 févr. 2025 09:33:07
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He isn't wrong, but instead of trying to do something different, POE2 is trying to be a dumbed down version of POE1.
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" dumb down version of hold LMB to win? that's rough |
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" Yes its realy time to do stuff different i like that thought. Like Games Prince of Perisa ervery one was save / reloading until they beat content. And they made that tediuos sequence fun by leting you rewind time instead. Or moonbase you played tough content but before it got overly tedious they simply capped the linear progression and one really did appreciate not having to do that stuff over over again but be a level above that and bamm before that was boring linear progression was upped again. Its so refreshing when devs see what not fun on long run and reinvent progression and handling to be fun... |
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He isn't wrong, but he also isn't exactly right because it's highly subjective. Many players actually enjoy getting to the super fast destroy everything stage, at least at some point in the journey. Not too soon not too late, but at some point.
It also depends how you classify an ARPG. Sounds like he is only thinking of isometric ARPGs like Diablo/POE etc. But there are plenty of games which would rightly be classed as ARPGs out there which have a slow-roll progression and don't have you ending up like an area-wiping god - Dragon's Dogma, Sekiro, Elden Ring. Diablo/D2 did not only inspire their sequels and other isometric ARPGs. Part of the issue is that the isometric view isn't really best for gritty up close and personal combat which is generally better suited to 3rd person perspective. It was OK early on but as games got more complex isometric doesn't really offer good precision on controlling your character especially with a controller. So, ARPGs evolved more into a power fantasy as well as this long-term grind for better gear, more power. It's very hard to keep that engaging long term unless the power increases are significant, which if they are invariably seem to lead to the type of fast gameplay D4/3/POE2/1 have. Nobody seems to have really solved that in a big ismoetric ARPG yet. POE2 has tried, and it worked for Warrior playing through the campaign. If their skill interactions are made to scale better into endgame vs focusing on a single skill, maybe this will change. Dernière édition par Orion_3T#9801, le 10 févr. 2025 04:53:14
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GGG lied a lot with all the promises he made. I don't know if POE2 will be a good and different game, the developers are closed-minded, they want to maintain horrible mechanics, a market that only serves bots and RMT. It would take years for this game to be something different and fun. POE2 is far from being a good game, it's just a rotten copy of POE1. |
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" I think your right that he and definitely me where thinking of isometric ARPGs like D1 . Maybe APRG was a to wide definition scope. The games you metion feel a lot more like Tomb Raider and adventure too me and am much more involved in the story. With Diablo 4 and poe2 i actually don't know or care about the story? And i definitely dont feel to be part of it. I see Diablo 4 and poe 2 really focusing on itemization and it being a really realy intergal part of the game it feels surpiringly bland to me. |
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Totally agree with David Brevik. PoE 1 went so far away from interesting gameplay that GGG can't leap to the slow meaningful gameplay, PoE 1 players will never let them. We all doomed.
Dernière édition par Suchka_777#4336, le 10 févr. 2025 05:44:26
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I disagree strongly. This game plays itself like it does because the majority of the players wishes it to be like it is. Optimization is the keyword. And this even existed in D2. And this evolved for more than 20 years. As a game designer he should have understood that. And its not exclusive to poe1/2 either. Just look at d3/4, Torchlight, last epoch, lost arc and many more. The genre itself evolved to this. Slow ARPGs like d1 are now found in 3rd person action games. A better format for that in anyway.
Personally is saw this "slower" game play in the poe2 story multiple times. Strafe and dodge the same 4 skills for 5 minutes and press your rota. Yeah that's his and your definition of engaging. Yeah, no thanks, if I want to play Wow i play Wow. Current Build: Penance Brand God build?! https://pobb.in/bO32dZtLjji5 Dernière édition par tsunamikun#0433, le 10 févr. 2025 06:33:38
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" Because all ARPGS simply copied popular Diablo 2 and then Diablo 3 and then MMOs. No one even tried to solve this. Well, 1 APRG tried - No Rest For The Wicked. But they overtuned it so much that it became harder than souls games where every white mob is a boss (and made several other dubious design decisions). But at least they tried. But that was just 1 and only (and very recent) try in the whole ARPG history. As for Brevik - he did everything right. D1 has perfect pace in terms of ARPG journey. D2 not so much, but still it was very solid. And Brevik is right that once you become zoomzoom god - the game is basically over. You've "done it". There is nothing to play for. It becomes terribly boring if you continue (maybe not so boring if you are RTM trader, but that's another story). |
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