XP loss needs to go (566 hours play time)

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

There is a difference based on "cause and causation".

If you die in a map with "4 things on it", your death causes these 4 things to be removed.
That is A possible result of you dying in a map, but not THE explicit and direct outcome of you dying.
Do you lose "4 things on it" when you go with your character somewhere else and rip?
Do you lose the "4 things on it" when you run an empty map?
To simplify it, these "death results" are possible outcomes depending on what you are doing, but there are not the universal outcome of "you dying".

These things are ADDITIONS depending on what you did in the moment of your death.

For example, if a friend asks you to help him with... Idk... "Silverfist" in Act 3 Cruel and you die there on your level 90 character while helping him... there would be no penalty, result, or punishment for YOU DYING there IF the exp loss would be removed.

You couldn't lose exp, you couldn't lose any of your progress, your couldn't lose a waystone, 4 things, whatever.

So, if I ask for something that will be the result of death, I am not asking for every possible thing that can be connected to "dying", I am asking for the thing that WILL be connected to it - no matter what you do.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

There is a difference based on "cause and causation".

If you die in a map with "4 things on it", your death causes these 4 things to be removed.
That is A possible result of you dying in a map, but not THE explicit and direct outcome of you dying.
Do you lose "4 things on it" when you go with your character somewhere else and rip?
Do you lose the "4 things on it" when you run an empty map?
To simplify it, these "death results" are possible outcomes depending on what you are doing, but there are not the universal outcome of "you dying".

These things are ADDITIONS depending on what you did in the moment of your death.

For example, if a friend asks you to help him with... Idk... "Silverfist" in Act 3 Cruel and you die there on your level 90 character while helping him... there would be no penalty, result, or punishment for YOU DYING there IF the exp loss would be removed.

You couldn't lose exp, you couldn't lose any of your progress, your couldn't lose a waystone, 4 things, whatever.

So, if I ask for something that will be the result of death, I am not asking for every possible thing that can be connected to "dying", I am asking for the thing that WILL be connected to it - no matter what you do.

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Thaynime#8492 a écrit :

You probably chose the less likely scenario to make your point across. But I will humour you. Instance reset, having to redo the whole "map" and clearing stuff till you get to the boss.

Also funny that you use that as a scenario to explain your point because at that point, the player your helping doesn't lose xp...

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SpankyKong#9805 a écrit :

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

There is a difference based on "cause and causation".

If you die in a map with "4 things on it", your death causes these 4 things to be removed.
That is A possible result of you dying in a map, but not THE explicit and direct outcome of you dying.
Do you lose "4 things on it" when you go with your character somewhere else and rip?
Do you lose the "4 things on it" when you run an empty map?
To simplify it, these "death results" are possible outcomes depending on what you are doing, but there are not the universal outcome of "you dying".

These things are ADDITIONS depending on what you did in the moment of your death.

For example, if a friend asks you to help him with... Idk... "Silverfist" in Act 3 Cruel and you die there on your level 90 character while helping him... there would be no penalty, result, or punishment for YOU DYING there IF the exp loss would be removed.

You couldn't lose exp, you couldn't lose any of your progress, your couldn't lose a waystone, 4 things, whatever.

So, if I ask for something that will be the result of death, I am not asking for every possible thing that can be connected to "dying", I am asking for the thing that WILL be connected to it - no matter what you do.

It's so farfetched to suggest a level 90 would die to a base game monster. But by this logic, XP loss doesn't even qualify as a direct punitive reaction for players with 0 XP in their bar.

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Thaynime#8492 a écrit :

Instance reset... Wich is a form of progression loss. Also loosing all the drops from the enemy you killed. As far as I remember (and correct me if I'm wrong). I'm pretty sure even PoE1 didn't have that aside from the boss life reseting.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

It's farfetched because it seems you are unable to understand it otherwise. That's not a ME issue.
The punishment is "You lose 10% EXP of your current level - while being unable to go below 0%". The punishment still applies, but has no effect for obvious reasons when you are already at 0%. That's an accommodation because without it being this way you would start losing levels. Do you want that?

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SpankyKong#9805 a écrit :

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

It's farfetched because it seems you are unable to understand it otherwise. That's not a ME issue.
The punishment is "You lose 10% EXP of your current level - while being unable to go below 0%". The punishment still applies, but has no effect for obvious reasons when you are already at 0%. That's an accommodation because without it being this way you would start losing levels. Do you want that?

It's inconsistent to say that XP loss is your idea of a "universal, direct, explicit punishment... in place...no matter what the character was doing" when you're the one carving out an exception for it. I don't want XP loss at all. Your reasoning, not mine, suggests that they should be kicking people to lower levels because they absolutely have to punish players with XP loss universally.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

It's not "my idea"... it's literally how "EXP loss" works in PoE.
And no, the delevel was a counter to your statement before, to show you that it was invalid.

AGAIN... If you want the "EXP LOSS" to be removed... WHAT punishment would you put in place for it!? A punishment that does not depend on WHAT you were doing because it's not about WHAT you are doing - it's about what happened (you died).

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

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Thaynime#8492 a écrit :

Instance reset... Wich is a form of progression loss. Also loosing all the drops from the enemy you killed. As far as I remember (and correct me if I'm wrong). I'm pretty sure even PoE1 didn't have that aside from the boss life reseting.

Instance reset is only a thing in the campaign, so no.

I am not arguing about "do we keep 1 death per map" or "do we keep instance resets" or "do we keep health reset on bosses" or whatever. These are additional punishments and we could argue about them and if they should stay or go, but it's about the "EXP loss on death".

And these other points are even better arguable. In PoE1 we had 6 portals, no matter what we did. In PoE1 bosses did not reset their life to 100% when we died and re-entered the arena and so on. But these are changes they made with PoE2 and depend on what you are doing - aside from "death".

I am asking for a replacement, something that WILL punish you regardless of what you are doing IF you rip your character.