Exp loss on death topics are getting out of hand.

We get that some people don't like XP loss on death.

I personally love the XP loss on death. (81 monk)

I find it creates a real pressure to think through how i'm approaching maps that would be absent if I could just headbut them and die over and over.

I personally don't love hardcore, because the death penalty is too harsh, especially because deaths are often unpredictable. XP loss provides some of that same pressure to "play to avoid death" without the harsh hardcore penalty, and that's what I love most about it.

I don't think any of this is the issue for mainstream audiences...

I think the actual issues have to do with allowing users to understand what is happening in the game.

- why is my build 20x worse than another?
- why is this gem failing to fit or cut?
- why did the skills on my bar go? (gem attribute failure)
- how do you cut a low-level gem when you need one?
- what do i do when my build is messed up when i have no gold?
- what killed me?

These issues are far more pivotal for the mainstream than xp on death.

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dwqrf#0717 a écrit :

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PhillipBurns#5461 a écrit :

I'm not sure, definitely seems like he's defending things that are clearly an issue.

XP loss on death isn't an issue. It's a fundamental core design of ARPG that keep the player on his toes and make XP gain past a certain point valuable, becoming its own goal for tryharder.

But no one NEEDs XP past 90.

The ISSUE is about snowflake's feelings being hurt because they THINK they DESERVE to reach level 100 or else their build won't work and their goals won't be reached.

That's the issue.

Nobody is forcing anyone to reach level 100 to play, enjoy, and clear the game. Nobody. That's all in your head.

It seems like you and the OP completely misunderstand feedback forums. If you can't approach the opinions of others without attacking them then you shouldn't engage with the community.

Also to say that there should be an XP penalty, which I think is fine if other systems balance it out & not the system of simply investing in more time, because who is going to replay the whole game in its current state- probably very few , but to then say you don't need to go past level 90 is so hippocritical. Like the other guy said, why even have a level 90 lol even the OP said he's level 95.

It's inherently a bad fit at this point. It will get balanced. They might not remove XP penalty but they can increase XP gains later on, which I'm pretty sure they did in poe1. They can increase the number of chances you get in a map from just one death. It's the context of the game as a whole and -10% at this state doesn't work if the draw back is too high because of the systems working together. Someone saying remove XP penalty is a feedback & obviously the developers see that and go from "there vision" to "there vision but in a balanced way". I don't think it's a hard concept to grasp.

I might be violating the code of conduct here when I say this, but I think you're an idiot. Not the OP but you.

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mrfox123#7595 a écrit :

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MrPedez#4934 a écrit :

They already exeeded their expectations when it comes to number of players. GGG is not known for compromising just to get more players, they are dedicated to the game and not to their bank account and they are going to make the game exactly the way they intended with the necessary balance changes and bug fixes. Yes they did want to appeal to a wider audience and they already did by making the skill tree and gems less confusing to new players, but things like xp loss on death will never be removed just to satisfy casuals

Again you people are being disingenuous. Removing the exp-loss on death wouldn't even satisfy the casuals, since those generally stops playing after the main story and probably wouldn't even reach past 75. And the exp requirement past 80 far surpass the time investment most casuals would want to dedicate to one game.

Removing the exp-loss would satisfy the hardcore players (not hardcore game-mode), since now they could enjoy more of the process of reaching level 100 by playing content that is relevant to their level, without having to set of time dedicated only to grind those out at the easiest content accessible to them.

I think u misunderstand my intentions, im not trying to get xp loss removed i think its perfectly fine as it is and definitely should not be removed at all. I dont understand how anyone can be so obsessed with this its even part of most other arpg's including the goat D2 who defined the genre

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KuroSF#6521 a écrit :

We get that some people don't like XP loss on death.

I personally love the XP loss on death. (81 monk)

I find it creates a real pressure to think through how i'm approaching maps that would be absent if I could just headbut them and die over and over.

I personally don't love hardcore, because the death penalty is too harsh, especially because deaths are often unpredictable. XP loss provides some of that same pressure to "play to avoid death" without the harsh hardcore penalty, and that's what I love most about it.

I don't think any of this is the issue for mainstream audiences...

I think the actual issues have to do with allowing users to understand what is happening in the game.

- why is my build 20x worse than another?
- why is this gem failing to fit or cut?
- why did the skills on my bar go? (gem attribute failure)
- how do you cut a low-level gem when you need one?
- what do i do when my build is messed up when i have no gold?
- what killed me?

These issues are far more pivotal for the mainstream than xp on death.

You won't be loving it so much when you're lvl90+ believe me.

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MrPedez#4934 a écrit :

I think u misunderstand my intentions, im not trying to get xp loss removed i think its perfectly fine as it is and definitely should not be removed at all. I dont understand how anyone can be so obsessed with this

People don't like having their time wasted and deleted in a videogame, that's why so many people hate this outdated mechanic from D2 and other ancient games. The year is almost 2025, it's time for PoE to move on already lmao

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Wilmots#7633 a écrit :

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maquino85#7657 a écrit :

Feedback is to make game better. Exp loss on death makes it worse. Just because you’re okay with it doesn’t make it a good thing that should be in the game.

ever played diablo 2? Its a classic mechanic.

You know what else there was in D2? If you ran back to your corpse and picked it up, you got part of your lost xp back.

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Toforto#2372 a écrit :

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MrPedez#4934 a écrit :

I think u misunderstand my intentions, im not trying to get xp loss removed i think its perfectly fine as it is and definitely should not be removed at all. I dont understand how anyone can be so obsessed with this

People don't like having their time wasted and deleted in a videogame, that's why so many people hate this outdated mechanic from D2 and other ancient games. The year is almost 2025, it's time for PoE to move on already lmao

Then dont play ffs, its that simple. If u feel like its waste of time then just dont play, most arpg players are used to xp loss on death and its perfectly fine as it is and prevents people from going full glasscannon fastest way to lvl 100. Its pointless to have absolutely no penalty for dying and it would just trivialize the game and lvl 100 would not feel like an accomplishment but rather just a proof of how many hours u played on that char

Fair take imo,

I think GGG has a lot of improvement on teaching the game to players as it goes on. Which might help balance out the current issues around dying in the end game.

I think inherently dying with a one chance portal is already penalizing enough considering the losses that come with it. If you factor in the XP penalty it feels to harsh and unbalanced.

If everything is slower, if everything is harder and everything is bigger, I don't currently see why there's another penalty when you're already losing the investment into the map, the time spent getting it and setting it up. The higher level you get you're talking hours of additional gameplay to get back to your progress from where you died. That doesn't sound reasonable.

I'm not expecting to put the game down once I beat it because it's supposed to be a seasonal/league content updated game. If it continues this way how will the majority of players be able to manage achieving the higher levels? If there's no reason to obtain a high level, why have it or a XP penalty? I strongly believe the devs will balance it out & it probably won't come in the form of removing XP penalty but it wouldn't matter if they did if they keep the other systems the way the are.

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KuroSF#6521 a écrit :

We get that some people don't like XP loss on death.

I personally love the XP loss on death. (81 monk)

I find it creates a real pressure to think through how i'm approaching maps that would be absent if I could just headbut them and die over and over.

I personally don't love hardcore, because the death penalty is too harsh, especially because deaths are often unpredictable. XP loss provides some of that same pressure to "play to avoid death" without the harsh hardcore penalty, and that's what I love most about it.

I don't think any of this is the issue for mainstream audiences...

I think the actual issues have to do with allowing users to understand what is happening in the game.

- why is my build 20x worse than another?
- why is this gem failing to fit or cut?
- why did the skills on my bar go? (gem attribute failure)
- how do you cut a low-level gem when you need one?
- what do i do when my build is messed up when i have no gold?
- what killed me?

These issues are far more pivotal for the mainstream than xp on death.

As i mentioned earlier. A few leagues back in PoE1 i finally got around and made a fairly self-made build that could get through almost all the content, though bosses would be a tad slow to kill.

First since supporting the game since the closed beta where i hit the end-game mapping, and thought to myself that now would be the time where i would settle for lvl 100, without utilizing the afk exp farms...

I had to concede at 96 after i'm fairly certain i had a week if not more of progress erased from dying to random things such as the exploding porcupines or reflect enemies hiding among the masses.

Losing this exp, hours upon hours of progress was not fun. Farming the easiest maps possible that gave a modicum of exp was not fun. Not being able to engage with the league mechanics due to their risk of killing you, was not fun.

All this exp-loss does, is to make it so that you end up actively avoiding the parts of the game you are suppose to have fun with if you want to level, cause otherwise the game goes full on "fuck you".

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MrPedez#4934 a écrit :

Then dont play ffs, its that simple. If u feel like its waste of time then just dont play, most arpg players are used to xp loss on death and its perfectly fine as it is and prevents people from going full glasscannon fastest way to lvl 100. Its pointless to have absolutely no penalty for dying and it would just trivialize the game and lvl 100 would not feel like an accomplishment but rather just a proof of how many hours u played on that char

If everyone "just doesn't play" the game dies.
No most arpg players are not "used to" having their time wasted and completely not respected by the game.
No it does not prevent people from going full glass-cannon, in fact in this game because of the sad state defenses are in people are just going full damage because if they can clear the screen before a mob touches them then they don't lose exp or the map. This game actively encourages the playstyle you so much want to keep out of it, very nice.
Having no penalty for dying doesn't trivialize a game, just look at literally any fun game that doesn't have these cbt overly-punishing mechanics that PoE does, these death penalties are the result of "The Vision" poisoning this game and nothing else.
Lvl100 isn't an "accomplishment" to the average player, most people don't care. And it's expected to reach max level at some point in an rpg anyway, this design makes no sense and devs can be wrong about a game lol

And finally, the hilarious and ironic thing is that lvl100 right now is just a meaningless badge of honor saying "look at me I spent 1000 hours in low-tier,safe,easy content to grind this out all day". It's far from being an achievement lol

Just a reminder that nobody in the world is lvl100 yet. Only 3 lvl99s, 2 Stormweavers and 1 Invoker. I'd bet all 3 of em are giga meta ES-stacking builds with gear worth at least a mirror each. And they probably play all day, and 3 weeks into EA none of them have reached 100. When it's this bad the problem lies in the game, no amount of "skill issue" spam can dismiss that.