Melees Solution - Buff/Aura specifically for Melee builds

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AceNightfire#0980 a écrit :

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Poe2WarriorMan#6401 a écrit :

Yea it doesn’t need a psuedo old defiance banner with …. 20% dr a bit ridiculous

20% isn't rediculous. It depends on the calculation. Lets say you get 1000 damage. Armour reduces that by lets say 40% down to 600 damage. And now the universal damage reduction reduces these 600 by 20%, which would result in 480. So it's not 20% of the original damage, but 20% of the damage after everything else was calculated. And from 600 to 480 is a reduction of 120 damage. In relation to the original 1000 damage that is a reduction of 8,3%. This is not to much, but significant enough to survive in close combat, especially since it reduces every damage, not just physical.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how armour works

First it’s just >>>P<<< DR

Second it has diminished effect against larger hits. You don’t take 30% of the damage from a 3k phys hit if you have 70% PDR. It only works like that on smaller hits

Most importantly though 20% DR is too much universal reduction. You’re asking for old systems to be put in place because there is a part of the tree that is currently WAY overtuned for defense (ES) along with nothing on our side of the tree.

The only time I experience danger in mapping(yea I’m in 15s) is if I start being reckless with modifiers or going to quickly. Something several other abilities are currently overtuned in. (Shock the entire screen even behind you is worse than Tornado shot, it needs to be nerfed hard )

Just because something else is experiencing broken doesn’t mean we have to try to add on more broken to match that level of broken

Broken+ broken =\= Balance

It just equals more broken

the argument of all time, EHP how wonderful to see it in full display.

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Poe2WarriorMan#6401 a écrit :

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how armour works

First it’s just >>>P<<< DR

Second it has diminished effect against larger hits. You don’t take 30% of the damage from a 3k phys hit if you have 70% PDR. It only works like that on smaller hits

My calculation was ofc a very simple example. Yes, I know that it's just for physical. I could do the same calculation for elements. 1000 fire damage, reduced by 75% results in 250 damage. 20% of that results in 200 damage. And 50 in relation to 1000 fire damage is only a reduction of 5%. I know that the calculations are more complex, I just wanted to show that these 20% are not as effective as it might sound in the beginning if it's calculated at the end, after everything else was subtracted already.

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Poe2WarriorMan#6401 a écrit :

Most importantly though 20% DR is too much universal reduction. You’re asking for old systems to be put in place because there is a part of the tree that is currently WAY overtuned for defense (ES) along with nothing on our side of the tree.

The only time I experience danger in mapping(yea I’m in 15s) is if I start being reckless with modifiers or going to quickly. Something several other abilities are currently overtuned in. (Shock the entire screen even behind you is worse than Tornado shot, it needs to be nerfed hard )

Just because something else is experiencing broken doesn’t mean we have to try to add on more broken to match that level of broken

Broken+ broken =\= Balance

It just equals more broken

Just nerfing ES will not result in getting finding a good solution for melee. If melee has problems right now, how will nerfing ES help melee in the first place? It just makes ES builds weaker, but melee builds not stronger/tougher.

And btw.: The 20% only applies if you have 20 stacks. This will not always be the case. Furthermore, the numbers are made up and can also be balanced over and over again, if 20% would be to much in the end. They can reduce it to 15% or even 10%.

And thanks for your feedback, I appriciate it.

Perhaps making it a support gem for a spirit aura instead of a spirit gem on its own (since 10/20 spirit is an easier cost to bear, and some melee builds have it to spare but not the skill slot).

To tie into PoE1, could call it Fortification. Get damage reduction for attacking with melee weapons.

This was more or less fixed after they obliterated Fortify.

Fortify Grants 20% Less Damage Taken.

Damage threshold before mitigation determines the duration of Fortify. Meaning big slow hits have a long duration. Fast lighter hits have a shorter duration. GGG just never cared to fix it.

Instead for some reason they made Endurance Charges OP. Which they'll prolly nerf.

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Xzorn#7046 a écrit :

This was more or less fixed after they obliterated Fortify.

Fortify Grants 20% Less Damage Taken.

Damage threshold before mitigation determines the duration of Fortify. Meaning big slow hits have a long duration. Fast lighter hits have a shorter duration. GGG just never cared to fix it.

Instead for some reason they made Endurance Charges OP. Which they'll prolly nerf.

The problem with Fortify in PoE1 was, that it was also easily accesable for ranged characters. I played totem marauder quite alot and it was very easy to uphold fortify all the time. Just leap slam into an enemy with fortify support linked to leap slam and you are literally immortal.

The rules I suggested prevent characters with ranged builds to use challenger spirit effective, which is the goal, because it should be a true melee focused support/spirit gem.

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AceNightfire#0980 a écrit :

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Xzorn#7046 a écrit :

This was more or less fixed after they obliterated Fortify.

Fortify Grants 20% Less Damage Taken.

Damage threshold before mitigation determines the duration of Fortify. Meaning big slow hits have a long duration. Fast lighter hits have a shorter duration. GGG just never cared to fix it.

Instead for some reason they made Endurance Charges OP. Which they'll prolly nerf.

The problem with Fortify in PoE1 was, that it was also easily accesable for ranged characters. I played totem marauder quite alot and it was very easy to uphold fortify all the time. Just leap slam into an enemy with fortify support linked to leap slam and you are literally immortal.

The rules I suggested prevent characters with ranged builds to use challenger spirit effective, which is the goal, because it should be a true melee focused support/spirit gem.

Oh, I'm well aware of the issue with shield charge and leap slam.

That's why it was based on damage. Anything under one second would just be discarded. If you're not a melee character those skills wouldn't do enough damage to trigger it. This was just a better fix for Fortify than what GGG made.

The issues was the reduction needed to be nearly instant or stacks needed to last much longer. Esp with how GGG likes to make bosses with long period where they phase or you don't get to attack.

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Xzorn#7046 a écrit :

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AceNightfire#0980 a écrit :

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Xzorn#7046 a écrit :

This was more or less fixed after they obliterated Fortify.

Fortify Grants 20% Less Damage Taken.

Damage threshold before mitigation determines the duration of Fortify. Meaning big slow hits have a long duration. Fast lighter hits have a shorter duration. GGG just never cared to fix it.

Instead for some reason they made Endurance Charges OP. Which they'll prolly nerf.

The problem with Fortify in PoE1 was, that it was also easily accesable for ranged characters. I played totem marauder quite alot and it was very easy to uphold fortify all the time. Just leap slam into an enemy with fortify support linked to leap slam and you are literally immortal.

The rules I suggested prevent characters with ranged builds to use challenger spirit effective, which is the goal, because it should be a true melee focused support/spirit gem.

Oh, I'm well aware of the issue with shield charge and leap slam.

That's why it was based on damage. Anything under one second would just be discarded. If you're not a melee character those skills wouldn't do enough damage to trigger it. This was just a better fix for Fortify than what GGG made.

The issues was the reduction needed to be nearly instant or stacks needed to last much longer. Esp with how GGG likes to make bosses with long period where they phase or you don't get to attack.

That's why I suggested the 8 second timer and full refresh of time if another melee hit has happend during that 8 seconds. Phases where you can't hit the boss for straight 8 seconds are rare.

While I like the idea of trying to give melee [esp. Armour + Life] builds a boost I think the problem runs deeper than damage mitigation.

Damage mitigation, crowd control, clear speed, move speed, etc. all are problems that Armour + Life "melee" builds need help in.


As for the melee aura itself I wonder if instead of buffing the player it would be better to "debuff" enemies instead [like Overwhelming Presence??]. Perhaps enemies hit with strikes [or slams if within 2-3 meters] could suffer from lower damage, no ability to "body block", lower action and move speed, or some combination of the above??? Perhaps there's a damage threshold to activate and increasing damage increases the effect and/or duration??


FYI: Just throwing out an idea. Not saying it's good.

Give melee weapons implicit defense stats. Melee characters will use melee weapons and spellcasters won't (or if spellcasters do, they lose out on the massive damage bonuses that spell-caster weapons have at which point - that's a fair tradeoff).

Extra stun threshold while in melee animations would also help mitigate some of the melee jank.

As would debuffing ranged accuracy on enemies against players in melee - it's a lot harder to hit someone in a cluster of your buddies if you're trying to also *not hit your buddies*.