Passive Tree - Kind of Boring

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Autocthon a écrit :

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SEOINAGE a écrit :

Your mentality fits perfectly with the crowd for other games. I love the skill tree, and I love planning various builds and having that variety. Sure there is particular best specs that you could do to min max everything. But there are lots of others that are effective and fun. If you really are too lazy to plan out a build you should play a different game that takes thinking out of it. If people want to be cookie cutters than let them, in beta there aren't tons of them, usually have variation, sure on release they will be more common etc. but who cares, custom building your class is what makes it fun imo. I would argue for even more of it.

Ah, the infamous "go play something else" retort. Mixed with the "obviously you don't want to think" condescension that is oh-so-common in gamers.

I actually am playing a lightning/melee witch at the moment. Never said I played straight cookie cutter builds.

When the game is totally open cookie cutters are pretty much guaranteed to be the norm. Hell AoF popularity is because it has 10 or more times the DPS of other builds. Skill systems were *barely* passable technology in the first place that is being phased out primarily because the larger portion of the gaming population (and we're not even talking softcore vs hardcore) doesn't find them all that engaging. The only good skill point systems are all in tabletop RPGs.

I love me some DnD (regardless of edition). I love spreadsheeting and figuring out the best ways to play. I don't like starting from scratch after I put untold hours into something just because I want to try a new skillset. I happen to have an actual life, which so many people around here seem to discount.

Well I get what you are saying here, and my comment was for the OP. I also imagine regret orbs will be more common come release. I do however prefer path of exiles respec system compared to diablo 2's system they implemented. I like to think the path I chose defines my character, and that people can't just quick fix to whatever is best at a given time. I kind of like it, and if it was a pain to have multiple characters I might complain more, but it is extremely easy to get to lvl 55 in this game, and so far I have a reasonable amount of fun with a new character.

I really normally don't like the tedious stuff, and also have limited game time, but pre level 55 I don't think it is too big a deal, and as they put in more content I think when there are monsters above that level other than chaos I think leveling will continue in a reasonable fashion.

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SEOINAGE a écrit :

Well I get what you are saying here, and my comment was for the OP. I also imagine regret orbs will be more common come release. I do however prefer path of exiles respec system compared to diablo 2's system they implemented. I like to think the path I chose defines my character, and that people can't just quick fix to whatever is best at a given time. I kind of like it, and if it was a pain to have multiple characters I might complain more, but it is extremely easy to get to lvl 55 in this game, and so far I have a reasonable amount of fun with a new character.

I really normally don't like the tedious stuff, and also have limited game time, but pre level 55 I don't think it is too big a deal, and as they put in more content I think when there are monsters above that level other than chaos I think leveling will continue in a reasonable fashion.

At this point it comes down to which part of the game is fun. The mid-level "play" experience or the item hunting experience.

I like D3's focus on the item hunt myself because that's the whole reason I play ARPGs. If I wanted to play a goof skill point system I'd play tabletop. I don;t like the first 20ish levels before my character really has a defining theme.

But that's probably because of the skill system and not the skill trees. No "signature" class stuff is kinda boring. I'd personally like to see items with only level requirement that are exclusive to a class. But that's neither here nor there.

At least PoE levels relatively quickly, makes the process of getting where you're going less painful. Now if onlly the item hunt were more fun and there was a more defined economy. Either open beta will help define the economy or it will devolve into something as bad as D2.

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Autocthon a écrit :

At this point it comes down to which part of the game is fun. The mid-level "play" experience or the item hunting experience.

I like D3's focus on the item hunt myself because that's the whole reason I play ARPGs. If I wanted to play a goof skill point system I'd play tabletop. I don;t like the first 20ish levels before my character really has a defining theme.

But that's probably because of the skill system and not the skill trees. No "signature" class stuff is kinda boring. I'd personally like to see items with only level requirement that are exclusive to a class. But that's neither here nor there.

At least PoE levels relatively quickly, makes the process of getting where you're going less painful. Now if onlly the item hunt were more fun and there was a more defined economy. Either open beta will help define the economy or it will devolve into something as bad as D2.

Yeah I agree the starting stuff is a pain to redo especially when your character doesn't have much in way of skills and passives and gear to help them out. I actually didn't really enjoy the d2 gear grind. I liked D1 gear grind though at the time. I get bored of just trying to get better items, but also agree economy will improve on release, it will need to, especially on hardcore where trading is somewhat nonexistent. I also like the recent changes to item rarity and quantity, hate being forced to just stack that like crazy so i'm not wasting my time.

Some of the reasons I liked d1 over d2 gear grind, was in d1 you were killing every single monster. d2 it was just run to specific bosses only, teleport in, certain classes you only played for MF. I think one character should be able to kill and mf all in one and I think poe has the right mechanics in place for it.

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SEOINAGE a écrit :

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Autocthon a écrit :

At this point it comes down to which part of the game is fun. The mid-level "play" experience or the item hunting experience.

I like D3's focus on the item hunt myself because that's the whole reason I play ARPGs. If I wanted to play a goof skill point system I'd play tabletop. I don;t like the first 20ish levels before my character really has a defining theme.

But that's probably because of the skill system and not the skill trees. No "signature" class stuff is kinda boring. I'd personally like to see items with only level requirement that are exclusive to a class. But that's neither here nor there.

At least PoE levels relatively quickly, makes the process of getting where you're going less painful. Now if onlly the item hunt were more fun and there was a more defined economy. Either open beta will help define the economy or it will devolve into something as bad as D2.

Yeah I agree the starting stuff is a pain to redo especially when your character doesn't have much in way of skills and passives and gear to help them out. I actually didn't really enjoy the d2 gear grind. I liked D1 gear grind though at the time. I get bored of just trying to get better items, but also agree economy will improve on release, it will need to, especially on hardcore where trading is somewhat nonexistent. I also like the recent changes to item rarity and quantity, hate being forced to just stack that like crazy so i'm not wasting my time.

Some of the reasons I liked d1 over d2 gear grind, was in d1 you were killing every single monster. d2 it was just run to specific bosses only, teleport in, certain classes you only played for MF. I think one character should be able to kill and mf all in one and I think poe has the right mechanics in place for it.

D3 has the best gear grind setup as far as ARPGs go. No skill point system hurts it for some players but *shrug* a good game is a good game.

D2 you could grind the whole game A1-A5 in hell if you weren't looking for specific drops. The treasure tables sucked hardcore though in general.

Edit: The very best gear in D2 was generally runeword gear that was ladder-only. However getting it required no MF and just lots of time. Running A5 beginning to end all day every day was actually a good tactic.

This does give the peoples more options in the way customization, but the thing is there will always be that player who does it right. Once I get in the beta I will see the effect it has on the comment and how much it makes the combat differentiate from time to time.

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JustAprofile a écrit :

This does give the peoples more options in the way customization, but the thing is there will always be that player who does it right. Once I get in the beta I will see the effect it has on the comment and how much it makes the combat differentiate from time to time.

Just because you have more points to put into a skill tree does not mean you have more real choices. In the original post they specifically mention putting 6 points into the same thing (+10 STR). Then later mention having to put another 7 points into STR again.

Placing multiple points in "filler" to reach the skills you want only gives you the illusion of choice. You are really just looking at a few places on the tree that you want to reach and choosing the shortest path between them.

In this game dont orbs (that you put in equipment slots) work like skills and the "passives" work as boosts? Because thats all I see nothing but more or less boosts. Hence why they are called "passive". They are more like stat points than skills. Thats why there are so many "+10 str/dex/int". How else would you raise your str/dex/int if they took most of those out? They would have to rework the whole damn thing.

To me it seems like you guys are too used to general mmos who are done the same way. You level, you get stat points and skill points which are all setup in a linear way.

In this game you can play shadow and go the witches rout. But it will take longer. In most games you cant do this your stuck to specific class roles. Here you can choose what you want. And it seems people get confused when they are giving that choice.

Does anybody agree with me or at least understands what im trying to say?


edit: fixed a typo

They continue to tweak the skill tree so who knows if this will be changed anyway. I too have done this same thing, 10 str a bunch of times to reach Golems blood as soon as possible... Is that what they intended, maybe not, but we did it anyway. The fact of the matter is some builds will get a ton of keystones, if that isn't the route you want to go then, frankly, you chose it, no one forced you.

Truth be told there are 111 points, if you use 6 or 7 skills to get to one keystone early in the leveling process because it is what you really want then chances are you will also have another path open up to it as you add more points. At that point it would cost you 6 or 7 respec points to erase those 10 STR nodes after you connected another way. Personally I believe that if you feel you need to respec half your points then you have no right to complain about "wasting time" remaking your character, because you already wasted your time the first time around. A little pre-planning will save you countless hours in the long run, so be a little careful.

I love that you cant just respec at will in this game, it gives it TONS of replay value. I'm not saying taking pure STR for 6 levels isn't "boring" as far as skills are concerned, but doesn't it make the freaking keystone feel so damn sweet?

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Xalmaren a écrit :

They continue to tweak the skill tree so who knows if this will be changed anyway. I too have done this same thing, 10 str a bunch of times to reach Golems blood as soon as possible... Is that what they intended, maybe not, but we did it anyway. The fact of the matter is some builds will get a ton of keystones, if that isn't the route you want to go then, frankly, you chose it, no one forced you.

Truth be told there are 111 points, if you use 6 or 7 skills to get to one keystone early in the leveling process because it is what you really want then chances are you will also have another path open up to it as you add more points. At that point it would cost you 6 or 7 respec points to erase those 10 STR nodes after you connected another way. Personally I believe that if you feel you need to respec half your points then you have no right to complain about "wasting time" remaking your character, because you already wasted your time the first time around. A little pre-planning will save you countless hours in the long run, so be a little careful.

I love that you cant just respec at will in this game, it gives it TONS of replay value. I'm not saying taking pure STR for 6 levels isn't "boring" as far as skills are concerned, but doesn't it make the freaking keystone feel so damn sweet?

Depends on the definition of replay value.

D2 has tons of replay value if you consider just the number of builds and how generally difficult to respec it was/is. But the other part of the "replay value" mechanic is how actually FUN it is to replay that content. Replaying D2s leveling content is pretty boring and unsatisfying because you're locked into using weak skills for the majority of the process before you reach the skill you intend to use.

For a great number of players that time investment to try a new build isn't worth it. The majority of low level content isn't particularly inspiring (or generally ffun) in ARPGs. It takes about 4-6 hours of play to hit the "sweet spot" where you have fun toys to play with even in PoE. 4-6 hours to reach the fun part for most players is a LOT of time investment. And it's going to take EVEN LONGER to reach what you wanted to test out (I wanna try Acrobatics instead of CI on my shadow this time...) it doesn't help that if the new strategy doesn't WORK (in general or just for you) you just wasted a LOT of time.

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zriL a écrit :

If you have to "waste" so many points for your build, then your build is wrong. Nobody forces to make wrong builds, you can't blame the game for that.

true ... plan your character and work for it.

put in the time


That said, i do have a complaint about the passive tree descriptions. They simple do not tell you EXACTLY what they do in some cases. There is a lot of crossover in skills where you don't know if a skill applies or not.

ie this passive skill "Amplify - 10% increase area radius of skills, 10% increase to area damage"

does this apply to everything (auras,melee,range, elemental proliferation)

How would i know that by just reading it? If so then why are there other skills that specifically say "increase radius of auras"

another example:

soul drinker - leeches 1% of physical damage back as life.

Ethereal knives is listed as physical damage yet it doesn't seem to leech anything.

Is casting speed or attack speed what improves traps? Magic damage % or just the element for the appropriate trap (ie fire increase for fire trap)

I realize it's probably obvious what they do for the developers that MADE the skills but the skills just don't say exactly what they do

The aura wrath says "adds lightening damage to attack" but it doesn't add anything to magic attacks,traps,ethereal knives etc.

a simple patch with a more specific and comprehensive description of skills,gems and passive skills would help people know where they need to go in the huge and sometimes overwhelming passive tree pass.

nothing sucks worse then spending 10 levels of skill points to get to your passive goal only to find out it doesn't work they way you thought and you might as well scrap your character and start over.

jmo and thanks for your time