Poe has outgrown Trade

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Kulze a écrit :

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Sickness a écrit :

Yes I am sure you can come up with other limitations to trading that keeps it on the same level, but 99% of the people who whine about the current system would use the exact same arguments against the new one. Creating a new system is also a huge risk, it can ruin the game forever essentially.

Well, the let's see what people complain about mostly:

'I don't get answers' <--- would be fixed
'Listing is not reliable' <--- Would be fixed
'Price-fixers control the market!' <--- Alleviated to a degree, not fixed though.
'I want to play the game, not sit in the HO and take more time to trade!' <--- Also fixed.

So, those main-concerns we hear over and over again would be addressed at least, this WILL silence the majority of complains. What it won't silence is the new issues GGG will (I guarantee it!) implement when changing the system in any way. As we can see with animation-cancelling and the fairly... let#s call it 'interesting' way they implemented it. Good base-idea, bad execution, a tell-tale sign of GGG-work sadly, would wish it wasn't this way though.

So what exactly is the problem with the dev trade manifesto?

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Sickness a écrit :

So what exactly is the problem with the dev trade manifesto?

The reasoning inside it is mostly flawed. The things they deduct would happen... won't if implemented reliably.

That's what people are complaining about in regards to the Manifesto. It's (for the lack of another word) incompetence on their side instead of actual limitations which hold back a change.

It's not hard just set up a auction house where people can put items on with b/o prices and you can purchase instantly.

I have 9500 hours in poe but ill prob look for a diff game soon if nothing is done.

Having to whisper 10-20 people per item for many things is just stupid.
And it will only get worse as time goes on.


Even implement something where a seller can receive 5 whispers for a item their selling and if no reply it gets removed and a timer gets put on before they can try resell again.

I don't know i am not a expert but the system at the moment is below enjoyable when it comes to trading.

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Aquatic26 a écrit :

- Tons of sellers not replying, usually due to overwhelming influx of trade requests.

- Trade API is often overwhelmed, down, or just plain broken.

- Scammers are running rampant and preying on new or inexperienced players.

- Inability to trade with a potential buyer while running Delve, bossing, or any other intense activity.

- The use of a website to trade instead of something in-game is archaic, clunky, and immersion breaking.

these are all massive issues. My response to them is simply to not trade in leagues any more, the system is so bad Ive essentially just removed trade from my game in leagues.

I tried to trade once in legion. I wanted jewellers for my chaos. I whispered everyone with enough stock in jewellers, literally went down the list sending message after message after message after message... got 1 reply back in total and it was a guy saying he sold out hours ago...

I literally wanted to throw my computer out the window, the most fucking frustrating waste of time. I quit playing the league shortly after, it was like a turning point between me being somewhat happy with playing it and just feeling like you know what, get me the fuck out of this shithole im going back to standard to play with my friend who wants me to play with her, and the only reason i kept playing is because of that. If i didnt have a friend who wanted me to play I would have just quit playing the game. Thats how interacting with the current trade system in leagues makes me feel.

Ive read the manifesto, i get it, i largely agree with most of the points in it... but the reality is that the trade system is so bad that having it in this state, to me, in a league, is basically not having a trade system. Its D3 now, its a game where trade has been removed, thats what this is.


chris doesnt want an ah, sure i get that, but he also doesnt want trade removed. feels like most of the big poe streamers i see are now playing ssf or they have migrated from ssf to a small restricted private league where its basically just a trading items within a guild type situation. I think ud have to be pretty blind to whats going on to think that the dream chris has for trade is alive and well. an ah may not be the dream, but neither is this, and a lot of people are unhappy.





its one of those things in poe where the promise of this game was so good that many people tolerated it, the other aspects were so great, so ground breaking, the future for the game seemed so bright... its not 2013 any more, its 2019 and these issues the game has been carrying along the way are getting harder and harder to excuse or ignore. Theyve been in a lucky situation where they could just close a door on such concerns and it didnt sink them but theyre fools if they think thats gonna carry on forever. The poe honeymoon where all is forgiven is well and truly over.

[Removed by Support]

'TRADING TAKES TOO LONG, I'D RATHER PLAY!'

THAT'S THE POINT! you're doing it wrong. you don't constantly need someone else's pixels in order to play.

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Kulze a écrit :

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Sickness a écrit :

So what exactly is the problem with the dev trade manifesto?

The reasoning inside it is mostly flawed. The things they deduct would happen... won't if implemented reliably.

That's what people are complaining about in regards to the Manifesto. It's (for the lack of another word) incompetence on their side instead of actual limitations which hold back a change.

The reasoning in the manifest describes exactly what you and I just agreed on was a problem. Any solution to the problem we have discussed is also a solution to the problem started in the manifesto.

sick of price fixers/flippers for maps.

absolute sick of it.

glad I got my 24 challenges done already.

the NPCs every time summoning AH d3, there's more than d3.. unless you're obsessed with d3 if so seek medical aid asap.

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Xystre a écrit :

the NPCs every time summoning AH d3

My absolutely most favorite non-argument. Every time someone dares to blaspheme and brings the topic of an automated trading system, supported by actual arguments why it would be light years better than the current trash trading "system", an army of bots just go:

"B-b-bUt mUh AuKsHuN hOuSe iN DiAbLoLz 3 DiD nOt wOrK, hurr-durr"

Yea... Because D3 is the only online game to ever had an auction house alrite. And because it didn't work in D3, naturally, it will never work in any game ever. Let's ignore the hundreds of online games with fully functioning and properly implemented automated trading systems. Let's just close our eyes to the painfully obvious trading problems in an otherwise awesome modern game and keep trading like filthy peasants from the Dark Ages... Honestly, don't know what is more frustrating. The constant yapping of people who obviously have played 2 games in their entire lives. Or the childish stubbornness of GGG to accept they're wrong about trading and stop with that ridiculous manifesto...

Latte Nighto Rantus


Anyone who brings up D3 AH as some kind of "reasoning" as to why an AH in PoE is bad doesn't really care about their own argument. They just want to fabricate some kind of argument to shoot down - aka strawman.


- The PoE implementation of an AH doesn't exist yet, so comparing D3's RMT AH to what PoE's AH could be is just projecting one's opinion of what the PoE AH should be, and then shooting down that idea of an AH. Tunnelvision and strawmanning COMBINED.


- PoE Currency has a secondary purpose besides trading, so it eliminates itself out of the economy when used. Inflation isn't as much of an issue as each kind of currency has usage for crafting. It's not like D3 where D3 has artificial gold sinks like gem upgrades and Greater Rift "Empowered" rifts.


Please stop using the D3 AH as some kind of grounds for a reason as to why an AH shouldn't exist in PoE. A PoE AH implementation doesn't have to operate the same way, and there's less to worry about compared to the common issue of inflation in other games.


Other notes...


Gameplay is already trivialized by meta build(s) that have an easier time approaching league content, and no amount of more convenient trading is going to make it more trivial. If anything, convenient trading will allow much more accessibility to other builds that aren't meta. There aren't a lot of people that would want to bother waiting around to get items for a non-meta build if its too inconvenient to do so, but that's my opinion so treat this as subjectivity.


Most people want to convert currency so they can use the desired currency to engage in the game's actual mechanics, aka crafting. An AH would easily solve this problem and allow for players to engage in the crafting system more often. This is how it should be, especially as someone is building up their Atlas and optimizing their build by crafting their own jewels in case the ones with the mods they want are too expensive and/or too scarce.


Inflation occurs only if there's a lot of currency gain, and not enough sinks. There are plenty of sinks in PoE, and the most effective way to accumulate currency is either through botting or being in a guild/group for MF parties. The accessibility of the items compared to the accessibility of currency will determine the pricing of items in a market. We already see this on PoE Trade. Gameplay won't be trivialized any more than it already is because players still need to actually have the currency in order to get the items. Either the player found an item to use themselves, or they grinded (aka PLAYED THE GAME) enough to earn the item from other means. Accessibility will still be limited, but players can feel rewarded for the time and effort they put into the game.


As for the purpose of Premium tabs? Simple... just make it such that items listed in Premium tabs show up in the AH to be purchased. Now people still have a reason to get premium tabs so their items are listed. More tabs = more items that can be automatically sold... the way premium tabs should have worked since their creation.


I said I wouldn't argue with WKs about this. I'm just stating points that I'm sure some WK or another will try to shoot down.


I'm bored and felt like bumping this thread.


Final Note: Difficulty and longevity of a game shouldn't be based on gear alone. If GGG wants this game to be played forever, they need to balance stats better so that gear doesn't matter more than player adaptation/skill during boss encounters and other challenge content. Also, better boss encounters with more strategic elements that the player actually needs to be aware of. Some do exist, but are trivialized by simply dpsing bosses/mobs before they can properly react.


The only way I can see that happening is if they slow down gameplay, which seems to be something GGG is reluctant to do.


tl;dr Stop bringing up D3 AH, it was its own beast and is irrelevant to PoE. An AH, or some other manner of automated trade, aren't what holds PoE back from being a game from being played forever - it's the current balancing of stats and boss/challenge content that holds the game back from being played forever.

Bringing up the D3 AH is perfectly valid when refuting claim that the trade manifesto gets it wrong.

There has to be road blocks to trading or we will get the D3 situation all over again, only this time far worse due to no binding at all. I really don't see how the posters who are comlaining about the current road blocks won't just make the exact same arguments against any other one of the same magnitude.