New 'Elemental Hit' conceptually broken?

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Prizy a écrit :

Can someone eli5 it for me? I'm probably dumb here.

This might be a bit tricky, because it involves the game's order of operations for damage calculation:

• According to the patch notes: "Now adds damage of all three element to attacks, selects one at random, and deals no damage of any other type." Notice the order that's in. This is very important.
  
  
• The gem starts by adding all three lines AT ONCE. (this was confirmed by Mark on Reddit) The "random chance" doesn't occur until "later" in the math.
  
  
• The way damage calculation works in PoE, sources of "Flat" damage (e.g, anything saying "deals xxx to yyy" or "adds xxx to yyy") always comes FIRST.
  
  
• Anything that says "deal no X damage" is always the very last part of the function, otherwise there'd be a way around that rule by finding a way to add the forbidden damage after that rule was applied.
  
  
• This leaves a huge gap between when (new) Elemental Hit adds its damage, and when it deletes the "wrong elements." This gap includes almost ALL the math and scripting, including elemental conversion. This gives us a chance to convert and "Save" those wrong elements by turning them into the correct one, BEFORE the game code deletes it.
  
  

Perhaps the simplest real-world example available right now is when we use Avatar of Fire for ANYTHING. Since it deletes all physical, lightning, cold, and chaos damage, it HAS to apply that rule AFTER it performs converting our damage. Let's compare the way it works now vs. if it was the other way around:

• AoF converts damage, then deletes "wrong" ones: If we have 100 cold damage, 50% of it gets converted to fire first, leaving us with 50 cold + 50 fire. Then the 50 cold leftover is deleted.
  
  
• AoF deletes the "wrong" ones, THEN converts: If we have 100 cold damage, AoF deletes it right away. Then it tries to convert 50% of our cold damage to fire, but because our cold damage is now zero, it converts nothing. We do no damage.
  
  

As you can see, the second option doesn't work for us at all, and would make AoF pointless; you'd just be deleting all your non-fire damage for no benefit in return. The first is how it ACTUALLY works, and teaches us about the game's order of operations.

My apologies if any of the above is still too confusing.

'Deal no damage of Type X' has always applied at the damage dealing step, not before.
Added damage has always able to be converted before that.

I think the confusion is because people are still thinking of the old ele hit. If you imagine it as a new skill completely, read the wording, and think of how AoF works with converting added damage, then it won't be a surprise to you how the new ele hit works any more.

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ACGIFT a écrit :

No, the Essence of Horror helmets are not a be-all for anything doing elemental damage, since "30% more" is only impressive when you're using a skill that doesn't have access to more than 3 support gems that can provide greater than that boost. (which is to say... RF and probably -only- RF)

I was talking about this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/8lnw54/heres_something_that_wasnt_possible_before_the/
Obviously the corruption is not an option for everyone, but even the helmet without the corruption is a pretty good choice for ele hit with full fire conversion. Basically a 6L and then some.

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dudiobugtron a écrit :

If you have time to swap gems even during Izaro, you're taking too long.

??? I don't really follow what you mean here. Why even bother with trying to find a good green gem to replace GMP if you cbb swapping? Before Izaro 3rd fight it is easy enough to swap to culling strike instead of swapping to your other dps gem.

Also, if you can do 10% of a bosses' HP in damage in the time it takes to swap gems, then your dps is so overtuned you probably don't even need to swap out GMP for a dps gem; use blind or just keep gmp there for less aiming needed.

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ACGIFT a écrit :

Yeah... "38% increased" isn't exactly gonna blow the roof off. No, it's worth equivalent to a single-digit's "more," which means it doesn't bring the whole value of the gem to even 20%.

You'd need like 900% or so increased from other sources before culling strike added 10% more (to 1dp) instead of 20% more (to 1dp). With most setups I would imagine running the support would be the equivalent of at least 15% more dmg.