Heavy strike, it exists but it doesn't.

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sofocle10000 a écrit :

If anything is to be taken from the 3.0 Beta change of doubling bosses HP, having a optimised 5/6L for single targeting when playing even namelocking melee will be extraordinary impactful, as long as you can clear all the other monsters (normal and magic ones) with a 4L/pseudo 5L.

It will improve the experience of the the single target focused skills by allowing them to keep fights shorter that your regular 5/6L to kill everything. And that is a great improvement already.

Not to mention that even on my main build, I could hover around 100K dual wield RT Heavy Strike damage, with more than 200K fully buffed (when flasked + dual cursing -Vulnerability on Hit + Punishment - I could end up with a flat 500K), and up to 52% chance to hit 400K damage (or up to 1M damage) on a goddamn dual wield RT Juggernaut. And that amount per each second of the fight will still make short work of even double health pool bosses, maybe even feel better than my current Static Strike + Lightning Strike combo...

Single target namelocking melee don't need intrinsic splash, they need you to encounter worthy rares - like 5 modded essence ones - scary Exiles and bosses, so that you will be encouraged to have a great single target melting option that is DIFFERENT from your regular "trash mobs" disposal skills.

That's it. Those skills need to get their identity back. And be the best at what they do, and killing difficult single targets in a visceral plethora of impactful hits, should have been their purpose all along...

I think this answer satisfies me. Thanks :D

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bananapanama1 a écrit :

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Raudram a écrit :

I don't see how it makes any sense to slap melee splash support on one of the best single-target skills (that are obviously meant to be boss killers) and complain it doesn't cover the whole screen.

Never mentioned the "whole screen AOE".
I played it for quite some time, melee splash i mean. And the most annoying thing is that I miss one or two monsters in a pack, then have to click one more time toward it.

Cleave has somewhat similar AOE, yet people still play it a lot. I personally enjoy cleave too.
As mentioned, I only play melee skills, and meta map clearing skills arent my thing.

P/S: used to play dual strike gladiator to level 90, it was fun.

Cleave has pretty good aoe for being a melee skill and is very fast, heavy strike is obviously intended to be a single target boss killer, especially with that knockback effect which makes it inefficient for pack clearing. Running it with melee splash is the same as running melee splash with double strike, just because the gem is there, doesn't mean it's going to be mechanically good. Some skills are better suited for melee splash, for example glacial hammer works wonders with it due to its mechanics.

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sofocle10000 a écrit :

Single target namelocking melee don't need intrinsic splash, they need you to encounter worthy rares - like 5 modded essence ones - scary Exiles and bosses, so that you will be encouraged to have a great single target melting option that is DIFFERENT from your regular "trash mobs" disposal skills.

Changing up gems before boss fights is OK. But changing your gem setup based on essence monster, scary rares and exiles becomes clunky at best. The rest of you post I do agree with. When we talk about single target, Dual/Heavy/Double Strike are OK skills in a defined, single target gem setup. Bu to go around changing your gem setup every time you encounter a worthy opponent? Nah, clunky, and far from "fluid" gameplay.

Solutions to this? Rework Melee Splash, or allow us to make the chest piece included in "x" ("weapon" swap).

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Phrazz a écrit :

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sofocle10000 a écrit :

Single target namelocking melee don't need intrinsic splash, they need you to encounter worthy rares - like 5 modded essence ones - scary Exiles and bosses, so that you will be encouraged to have a great single target melting option that is DIFFERENT from your regular "trash mobs" disposal skills.

Changing up gems before boss fights is OK. But changing your gem setup based on essence monster, scary rares and exiles becomes clunky at best. The rest of you post I do agree with. When we talk about single target, Dual/Heavy/Double Strike are OK skills in a defined, single target gem setup. Bu to go around changing your gem setup every time you encounter a worthy opponent? Nah, clunky, and far from "fluid" gameplay.

Solutions to this? Rework Melee Splash, or allow us to make the chest piece included in "x" ("weapon" swap).

Why changing gems before boss fight is OK? I never understood that. And I always made builds having dedicated single target disposal, as also having enough AoE clear too...

We already are into a point where you can clear normal/magic monsters with a goddamn 4L/pseudo 5L, up to tier 15 maps. Of course it's more easy to keep clearing them with a true 5L or 6L setup, but that setup should also feel a bit different from your regular 5L/6L single target namelocking skill when faced with a difficult enemy (and the single target namelocking should feel more powerful than your all purpose AoE clear).

And "fluid" gameplay already request from you to change to an alternate skill when facing various reflect, ranged enemies or even Volatiles. Why not have it as a "de facto" for clearing "trash" and "worthy" opponents too???

It can join the cold dark cellar that self-cast arc has been left to rot in

Single-target skills like Heavy Strike arent meant to be used for killing packs. They should be used as boss-killers.
So, you should ask first - is Heavy Strike good to kill a boss?

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MortalKombat3 a écrit :

Single-target skills like Heavy Strike arent meant to be used for killing packs. They should be used as boss-killers.
So, you should ask first - is Heavy Strike good to kill a boss?

Decent, I would say. But for me, I will always drop a totem, switch in conc effect and use vaal lightning trap.
Even many people say it's a single target-intended skill and how strong it can be with the right set up, I still believe that the skill would remain on the bottom of the list for everyone. Like self cast Arc, Glacial Hammer, Double strike, and the worst of all-mentioned by a comment somewhere above, Elemental Hit, completely unappealing to touch.

It seems to me that blade flurry > heavy strike single target wise, since you can couple of with conc effect and use area modifiers, etc ...
Plus it scales really well with attack speed, where heavy strike does not that well, given the bump ...

you are not supposed to be playing melee in the first place. Stop playing melee...or they will find you.


Also those "boss killer skills" (i.e. heavy strike, double strike, etc.) SHOULD be great single target skills but they are not. they do not have the damage, the utility (damage options), and they have issues with targeting (they can't use a cone shape for targeting for some reason). Meanwhile most stuff surpass them by leaps and bounds (most of which have all the damage, utility (damage options), and doesn't have to target anything). Even if those skills functioned the way they are supposed to (proper targeting, decent damage, some measure of sustainability, utility (damage options)) GGG would have to rethink how they makes bosses instead of the current "I spam the floor with elemental DoTs/I am only dangerous up close/I have close quarters combat counter measures (brine king)/just kill me from a distance/I am a bullet hell boss/some sort of anti melee fuckery (which would be forgivable if those "single target skills" did what they were supposed to do all along). Making more mechanical boss fights that trip up everyone in some way can't be done in this game (well it can but you really think they can do that anymore?). This ain't dark souls or grim dawn or torchlight or lost ark or torchlight 2 or runescape (before it got wonky...well wonkier (yeah i mentioned runescape i am oldish.)),

They want players to give up play something else like totems (that is melee right?), spells (that is melee right?) (funny thing about that too they made a vortex spell that had tons of utility, did not have to target anything, and had more damage than any other melee skill could ever achieve ever made cyclone look like ass.), traps (well not so much traps might be going the route of melee and PvP shortly), I hear summoning is going to be popular (if they fix the A.I. of the damn summons. or you can just use SRS and nothing else). you can try ranging also. If not you can always play a game that will allow you to play melee instead of trying to force you to play something else by designing the game to punish one playstyle while simultaneously pushing it onto a reservation (like PvP).



something random to close this out

I think it's the new skills that are out of place not the old.New skills are near enough complete skills without supports where as old skills were made by supports.When Firestorm came out I think one of the earliest 'complete' spell/skills I was a bit confused as I thought we were going to make skills through the support gem system.

I can see why these new skills appeared,it would of been more fun to create them and even more to use them.Also making supports that achieved the same results(like Fireball+'Bounce'=Magma Orb)might of got too complex.

When all said and done though why does their usefulness matter,they are just lines of code when you think about it.They are just there you can choose to use them or not.