Mind over Matter, review and discussion

Hello everyone. Today I'm going to discuss about Mind over matter and its possibilities on extending it's capabilities.

I have played quite some builds using Mind over matter, one using standard setup 30% MoM and no mana reserved, other with same 30% but with reserved mana and mana gain on damage taken setups, other with eldritch battery setup and lastly with extended up to 62% MoM effectiveness.

The current Mind over matter works greatly while having up to 30%-40% mind over matter effectiveness, since in that range mana gain on damage taken mods really helps a lot and even allows to still use auras. Those mods can be obtained via corrupted rings (3-6%), corruped shield (3-6%), mana node near duelist (battle rouse 3%), and Spirited Response (jewel 10%).
Having this setup its competitive with same amount of mana reserved for enfeeble or discipline, in other words it offers similar amount of effective hitpoints. Its very like discipline just for life builds.

But what happens when Mind over matter effectiveness climbs higher than 40%?
I have done quite a while ago 62% MoM effectiveness hierophant. 4.5k mana 3.1k life which in total sums up 7.6k hitpoints which is fairly large hitpoint pool which can tank pretty big hits.
But this is where the problems starts to occure. First of all its mana recovery issues, mana potions at this amount of mana doesn't really work, the strongest uncrafted mana potion recovers nearly 1000 mana over 10 seconds! Mana potions are totally out of options, then you have mana regeneration, base is 1.75% which to be pushed to respected 10% you have to have 470% increased mana regeneration which is way too much. The only resort is mana leech which is usually the same 2% as life leech.
Secondly it is the build. To have 62% MoM effectiveness and better amount of mana there is no build diversity, you have to have hierophant, pledge of hands, legacy cloak of defiance, aylardex amulet, corrupted mod on helm and also skill tree is unflexible, since you have to grab all mana, life nodes and power charges.

So what's better in having mana pool as mana tank over life or energy shield?
...
warlords mark maybe?..

No, there is nothing rewarding for going there. It's better to have es or life or remain at 30% and build whatever you want to build.

I think GGG misses an opportunity on expending expanding a little more build diversity, they could allow to have 75% MoM effectiveness without filtering the access to it too much. It wouldn't be good to go for 100% since it will become same as energy shield, but having 75% it would unlock a whole new area of possible builds, maybe adding some interesting stuff to it such as-
* 30% of damage taken to mana is regenerated back over 2 seconds;
* 20% of damage taken to mana is added to your base damage for 1 second;
* new offensive spells with built in mana leech and growing mana cost over time;
* spells which scales on current mana level (not max mana);
also there would be needed some more damage over time mitigation since its a huge issue for all heavy MoM users.


for the curious u can see how 62% MoM works (older build) :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu7XD3e2TwU

Well, yes, getting it to absorb a third of incoming damage isn't too hard, nor is replenishing the loss, if you want to push the absorption past that point you need to pigeonhole your build so much the benefit isn't worth the cost anymore. I think that's intended, MoM is a very nice additional defense if you can pay the entry fee but hard to specialize in, as opposed to ES which does jack shit in small quantities but is great when fully focused on.

I also think the 10% on hierophant is meant to be a cheap standalone mini-MoM sooner than an upgrade for regular one.

personally I would love more options with MoM. I love the idea of breaking 40% MoM with Hierophant+ardalex

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I have done quite a while ago 62% MoM effectiveness hierophant. 4.5k mana 3.1k life which in total sums up 7.6k hitpoints which is fairly large hitpoint pool which can tank pretty big hits.

I dont think this is right, (Id love someone great with math to verify/dispute this.)
I think the actuall HP pool is 5022 not 7600, heres why: 7.6k is just both added together, but MoM is only a percentage of damage from mana. So assuming were only talking about 1 hit. 62% of 3.1k is 1922, added to base HP gives you the 5022k hit you can take. I think im still missing something in this math but its not just the total of HP+mana.

No, actually i have too little mana.
having 3.1k life i should have 3.1k*(62/38)=5057 mana
so it is 7,6k hitpoints and would add to each other till i hit 5057 mana.

but yet, i had a little more issue with life than with mana due bleeds, ignites, poisons- all damage over time sources, and i had lower life regen than mana too. Life regen was 170 i believe and mana regen was 700 (thanks to awesome boot enchant which doubles mana regen on hit).

Good post.

I played hierophant first this league. It was fun I had about 44% MOM. I kept all my mana unreserved. I had just over 8k life/mana/ES. It was a good amount but nowhere near what CI can get. I felt squishy in the templar/witch area without armour nodes. I liked being able to use MOM because I needed more mana to sustain my skills anyway. Is it the most tanky option? Probably not but spellcasters need all the help they can get.

MoM has more uses than you outlined.

You can use it with Spirited Response to get free damage mitigation regardless of your mana regen.

As long as you don't need mana for casting, you can use it to keep unique mana and hybrid flasks running for their full duration. (Especially with Scold's bridle or some other self-damage.)
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/List_of_unique_flasks
Lavianga's Spirit, Zerphi's Last Breath and Divination Distillate are all great candidates.

MoM is very good as a additional layer. Last league i played ED dodge MoM build and it was awesome(i had little over 9k total pool there, 7k life and something like 2.3k mana). The league before that and this i had another MoM build(can see in my signature).

It is great, if u dont take constant dmg and it can replenish on it's own and dont have high mana usage of skills.

Imo, ur approach to MoM is wrong, that is why u have that opinion. If GGG would make,w hat u want, than it will be used buy everybody again. U didnt posted anything else and from what u write, i assume, u barely had any other layers of defense. Than MoM sucks a lot. If u protect it with dodge or block or at least not using it, to cast ur spells, than it becomes much much better.

Also look at flasks, which gives u more per use, life or mana? This alone will suggest, keeping life > mana. Since u will need a flask for main pool for sure. Also small life pool is very dangerous for many reasons.

U tried, u failed, u (hopefully) learned. Dont blame it on MoM.

I see MoM as a great secondary layer of defense. It is very good in that. Making main layer of it will not happen. And GGG will not make it happen, cuz it will be old story all over again. And i think, the change was intended for this.

And lastly ur argument to compare mana reserved for enfeeble is jut wrong. What stopping u to self or trigger cast it and have it together with the unreserved mana?

Yes, i do agree that MoM is great when used as intended.

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The current Mind over matter works greatly while having up to 30%-40% mind over matter effectiveness

and noted that there is a poor option to go beyond 40% point, which ruins proper usage of it and in the end theorized that it could be made viable in sense of widening build diversity.
Probably comparing it to enfeeble wasn't the best way to put it, but there isn't much to compare to ^^

What is not proper with 30%? I'm 100% sure, that 10-40% range is the intended proper usage for MoM.

If, what u want, would happen, than the current good usage of MoM will become op. Build diversity is in pretty good spot right now. Even with all the chaos meta.

If there is not much to compare to, than MoM is buy default a good choice ;)

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1337fun a écrit :

If there is not much to compare to, than MoM is buy default a good choice ;)

It's certainly more useful than people give it credit for. I just slapped it on as an extra defense layer on my Perandus main, after reserving 35% on blasphemy I'm left with some 850 mana which is good enough for my 4,6k life pool, it's a physical attacker so leeching back lost mana is no problem at all.

Probably the best thing I could possibly do with the remaining of my mana pool.