Lightning Strike - weak/inferior skill?

it's just outdated. aside from an increased damage effectiveness some patches ago, it really didn't see any change in the way it works, really. The same awkward angles it uses and the ground - based projectiles raics mentioned, plus relatively better skill design (at least better in killing stuff anyway) just makes it a not so good choice for a main skill. I believe Reave was its immediate successor back then.

"

Shppy a écrit :

As for the whole 'RT would be nice, but it defeats the purpose of lightning damage for shocks'... well, frankly crit shouldn't be tied to status effects anyway. Status effects SHOULD be derived from supports and skills and passives/gear, critting should absolutely not be the most practical way to apply status ailments while also being the general best form of damage scaling. Maybe if there were a keystone that enabled crits to auto-apply status ailments with some substantial downside it'd be acceptable, but right now the fact that crits guarantee statuses with absolutely no tradeoff is a joke. Anyway, the point is that the no-shock-with-RT shortcoming of LS isn't because of LS itself, it's because of a poorly designed status ailment system.

i can only agree and that's a really good idea. you should write this in the suggestions and feedback forum.

"

enveratise a écrit :

it's just outdated. aside from an increased damage effectiveness some patches ago, it really didn't see any change in the way it works, really. The same awkward angles it uses and the ground - based projectiles raics mentioned, plus relatively better skill design (at least better in killing stuff anyway) just makes it a not so good choice for a main skill. I believe Reave was its immediate successor back then.

glacial cascade has the same problems as ls with obstacles on the ground and stairs and from what i have heard this has beeen fixed in the beta so there is hope for lightning strike too.

"

kompaniet a écrit :

i can only agree and that's a really good idea. you should write this in the suggestions and feedback forum.

glacial cascade has the same problems as ls with obstacles on the ground and stairs and from what i have heard this has beeen fixed in the beta so there is hope for lightning strike too.

There are already a few very nicely argumented threads about removing status ailments from crit.

They fixed cascade in beta, it isn't stopped by obstacles anymore, it can even jump cracks and ledges. Probably one of the best spells currently, annoyance factor is eliminated and damage was always great.

That's great news if they fixed ground hugging skills like those. it'll be a great sweeper in wide area maps. add in that chest with the built in pierce and quality on the gem and it'll probably generate decent clearspeed.


Now, if only the projectiles ricocheted on walls...

"

raics a écrit :

There are already a few very nicely argumented threads about removing status ailments from crit.

Since they took the opportunity to indtoduce major changes thoughout this beta, and this didn't make it in, I doubt it's gonna happen any time soon.

The fixed projectile angles, I agree that is part of the problem, it forces you to use at least LMP despite the number of base projectiles being 3.

The major offscreening potential is an advantage over Spectral Throw I guess, though I'm not a fan of offscreening in general.

"

raics a écrit :

"

Shppy a écrit :

Personally, I think LS's projectile should automatically fire off in the direction of nearby enemies... they shouldn't curve or anything like that, but their initial heading should be directed at chosen enemies in front of the user, rather than being tied to rigid preset angles.

I don't think you would like that, imagine playing a range character and some enemy using LS attacking your golem or a melee buddy, you'd get autotargeted and bolts can't miss if the melee attack hit so you'd most likely get shredded in mine or precinct maps.

Nah, I definitely would like that. Like I said, the projectiles won't seek you out and chase you don't, they'd merely fire off in your direction in a straight line (much like the auto-targeted projectiles after using Chain on a projectile skill). The projectiles would still be rather avoidable manually, plus you could always position yourself so that you're too far off to the side/behind that LS user for his projectiles to target you (i'd have the seek range search within about a ~120 degree arc in front of the user... didn't mention that here, but I had my own thread about buffing LS like this where i detailed things more). Plus, if the bolts still have their same pathing, there's plenty of obstacles to break the path in the maps that have LS bosses.

Hmm, doubtful, man, doubtful. Those things are pretty fast, I wouldn't bet on myself at medium range if not already moving. It would be pretty cool, though, something like D2 lightning fury in melee flavor.

static strike/light strike combo is soooooo good. static is just good for lazy stuff and when theres masssss enemies but lightning strike is just so good for bosses you dont really want to tank like crematorium boss/lightning lazzzzer boss.

LS is a sick skill. Don't listen to these naysayers.


You have easy SHOCK. A near permanent 1.5x MORE damage boost on everything you do, including on crits. If you crit at 6x, with shock that will be 6 x 1.5 = 9x.

You have free AOE.

You have one of the highest single target attacks in the game.

You have melee/ranged flexibility WAY better than Reave and Static Strike.

Your projectile damage can be scaled very high. Try adding projectile damage nodes. These are generic damage nodes - so they double boost your projectile damage due to the conversion. All the dagger nodes and high weapon phys nodes also apply to projectiles.

Now consider each projectile is doing 91% of your base damage.

And here's the catch - ranged builds struggle with APS. But with LS you are using a melee attack gem (Multistrike) to boost your ranged attack speed, thus easily reaching 8-10 APS on a RANGED high damage skill. This is sick.

There is no way GGG will make the projectiles curve or go over obstacles, because I'm telling you that will be broken as FK.

If you want to get even more retarded levels of damage use Phys to Light with Lightning Strike -> now you will get FULL double boosts from MPD/PPAD -> WED conversion.

Hitting with pure light, cold, etc. No phys. Use Berek ring ofc.

Want to go even higher? Sure -> double curse with Ele Weakness and Conductivity. GG, good night. These are sick damage multipliers that you cannot get using phys skills.

"

Ceryneian a écrit :

LS is a sick skill. Don't listen to these naysayers.


You have easy SHOCK. A near permanent 1.5x MORE damage boost on everything you do, including on crits. If you crit at 6x, with shock that will be 6 x 1.5 = 9x.

You have free AOE.

You have one of the highest single target attacks in the game.

You have melee/ranged flexibility WAY better than Reave and Static Strike.

Your projectile damage can be scaled very high. Try adding projectile damage nodes. These are generic damage nodes - so they double boost your projectile damage due to the conversion. All the dagger nodes and high weapon phys nodes also apply to projectiles.

Now consider each projectile is doing 91% of your base damage.

And here's the catch - ranged builds struggle with APS. But with LS you are using a melee attack gem (Multistrike) to boost your ranged attack speed, thus easily reaching 8-10 APS on a RANGED high damage skill. This is sick.

There is no way GGG will make the projectiles curve or go over obstacles, because I'm telling you that will be broken as FK.

If you want to get even more retarded levels of damage use Phys to Light with Lightning Strike -> now you will get FULL double boosts from MPD/PPAD -> WED conversion.

Hitting with pure light, cold, etc. No phys. Use Berek ring ofc.

Want to go even higher? Sure -> double curse with Ele Weakness and Conductivity. GG, good night.

So much of this is simply false or looks much less 'sick' in the proper context

-shock is not easy or near-permanent with LS. With crit it can be reasonable to expect shocks on enemies due to the auto-application on crit (a mechanic which is pretty much completely unjustifiable). But without crit, shocking via LS is extremely unreasonable, as the existing chances to apply shock without crit are horrible, especially when it comes to using physical attacks (which make the few nodes that grant chance to shock fairly wasteful unless you go full phys to elemental conversion)

-"free AoE"... except it's about the same cost as similar skills (more expensive at lower levels, actually), and every other similar skill has a more usable AoE than LS's 3 bolts at set angles (which aside from the central bolt are often useless at a distance)

-to the contrary, LS is one of the weakest single target attacks in the game. It deals 130% base damage to the main target, that's it. Static Strike deals 110% base plus an additional 77% base on the release, Molten Strike deals 120% base on the initial hit and an additional 72% for every ball that hits the initial target, Glacial Hammer deals the same 130%, Heavy Strike deals 150%, Double Strike deals 70% twice, Dual Strike deals 85% of both weapons combined, Viper Strike deals 100% with 10% phys added as chaos and a 50% chance for 175% base damage as a DoT...... just about the only physical damage based single-target attacks WEAKER than LS are Infernal Blow at 125% with no secondary effects on the main target and Frenzy with 110% and no other bonuses without frenzy charges.

-No types of damage nodes 'double' because of the conversion, especially not projectile damage. That's not the way it works, at all. Projectile damage nodes, like Melee damage nodes, are actually horrible for LS, as they only work on the bolts or the initial hit respectively, not both. You want weapon-type nodes or general physical damage boosts, as they apply to both the initial hit and the bolts. Alternatively, elemental/elemental weapon damage boosts work well too if you go with a full phys to elemental route.

-91% base isn't impressive. Spectral throw deals up to 57% base damage, pretty much a minimum of twice per attack and quite possibly 4-5+ times if you use it reasonably well. Even with LMP to rival LS's 3 bolts, Spectral Throw will generally deal more damage per attack AND cover a much better area.

-People heavily overrate Multistrike. In the end, it's about a ~20% dps amp at low level and only gets up to about a 32% dps amp (compare that to melee phys which is a 30-49% dps amp on relevant builds); it's really not that impressive of a gem, especially for the cost multiplier and especially compared to its power-creeped cousin Spell Echo. It's all well and good to want to boost your APS, but when doing so heavily nerfs your damage per hit and binds you in place for 3 straight attacks, it kinda defeats the purposes of getting more APS.

-Converting physical to elemental generally isn't great. It does offer up the possibility of using double cursing and of using WED+PPAD/MPhys, but generally speaking the lack of leech plus the existence of opposing elemental resist (compared to the lack of physical resist on enemies) makes it hurt your potential when it counts (against bosses and tough rares), even if it helps your paper dps.