should +1 specter be a rare mod for wands

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as for the dual wield thing , then you would lose out on necro aegis which is great for crushing inconsequential content and a death sentence for everything else.

Yes. +1 Spectre mod is good enough to trade off Necro Aegis for. 6 Undying Evangelist with Echo-Fast Cast-Minion Damage-Increased Duration. Unlike uniques, the rares won't have a penalty.

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raics a écrit :

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Saltychipmunk a écrit :

i think this stigma against specters is entirely misguided , traditional summoners are not even close to being the most powerful builds in the game

You're off again, we don't care about SRSers or other builds here. The point is +1 spectre is the most valuable possible mod for a straight summoner, something like +1 power charge for a crit build, and you don't see +1 power charge as a rare mod. Hell, you don't see it at all except on one unique wand with a semi-drawback that people don't use very often and on a staff tailored for attackers.

you dont see a power charge , but you totally see 30% multi mods and 100% chance mods , im thinking that is superior for crit builds of the spell variety

my ranger doesnt get 5 power charges , but my 50% chance 30% multi quiver doesn't really care , neither do my rings , so maybe a bad example on your part

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Starxsword a écrit :

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as for the dual wield thing , then you would lose out on necro aegis which is great for crushing inconsequential content and a death sentence for everything else.

Yes. +1 Spectre mod is good enough to trade off Necro Aegis for. 6 Undying Evangelist with Echo-Fast Cast-Minion Damage-Increased Duration. Unlike uniques, the rares won't have a penalty.

LOL not when you already have 5 , you can get away with saying that when going from 2 - 3 as that's a 50% buff

5 - 6 is not even half the impact.

not to mention im limiting it to wands meaning you cant get more than you already have

also the difference between two midnights and 2 +1 wands would be 2 zombies ( 20% more damage), up to 60% increased damage and up to i think 30 or 40% movment speed which is HUGE.

that is not a small trade off considering we are talking a rare mod that would probably be high level.


I am still not convinced by these counter arguments


and on the topic of this false base that +1 specters mod is some how special, up until forsaken masters so was + life minion life , + zombies and + skeletons . yet now they are on rares as a master mod.

and what about corruptions?

Dude dual wielding bargains? Who does that shit?

With lorica you would have no es on chest AND no shield? So a total no for me.

With shav don't you think you can do stronger build than that? And even if you try to tweak it super strong then you got medium ES and less auras. I don't see that as really well build. I'd rather go zombies quad purities and MF like a boss.


+1 specter is still super strong, you can't deny that. I played with 3 sentinels on my first toon and was totally fine even in high maps without good gear. And yes i was using ullr...
+1 zombies or +2 skellies are nowhere comparable, not being range they are slow as fuck and block each other.

However playing summoners (not SRS) is kinda meh on some areas:
- when you gear it's res ES res ES res ES... absolutely no room for creativity, mana regen is just for AA, cast speed is totally useless
- current uniques really look awful compared to the good ones for other builds
- clear speed isn't huge all minions tend to not follow fast enough
- getting the right specters is still a bit of a chore

So I don't know if +1 specter is the right way to go, maybe, but regular summoners would totally deserve a bit of love. Right now it's mainly a subpar build except for magic finding. Maybe +1 specter -1 zombie to tone it down a bit?
Would be nice if minions could use some of the gear stats to be able to push the build a bit.
Like cast speed --> minion move speed or minion use half of your spell damage bonus on uniques or something...

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also the difference between two midnights and 2 +1 wands would be 2 zombies ( 20% more damage), up to 60% increased damage and up to i think 30 or 40% movment speed which is HUGE.

This is based on the assumption that all your zombies can hit the target. This is not a correct assumption to make.
30 to 40% movement speed has little meaning for Zombies, they already move incredibly fast and they are permanent, so that extra speed doesn't help too much. Not that it is unhelpful, it just doesn't make that much of a difference.
They may have meaning for Skeletons, but they are so incredibly slow.
They would have meaning for Summon Raging Spirits, except you would not be using Midnight Bargains for them.
And since you are reserving so much life by dual wielding, you will die even faster.

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- when you gear it's res ES res ES res ES... absolutely no room for creativity, mana regen is just for AA, cast speed is totally useless

I use cast speed. I find that important in dangerous fights. You need to rapidly re-summon your dead zombies and spectres against the likes of Zana map Merveil and Brutus.
Mana Regen is necessary to re-summon quickly.

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and what about corruptions?

If the +1 Spectre is a corrupted mod on Body Armor or a 2-handed weapon only, that seems fair.

40% move speed is positively nuts , its like an always on flesh offering , and it makes a massive difference as it dramatically cuts down on the travel time for the zombies which is the second largest inefficiency of their dps behind path blocking


those who underestimate its potency have much to learn

and can we stop twisting the concept of +1 skele / zombie into some sort of negative?

its not. its a positive and it does count. not as much as a specter sure but it does count

High level Zombies already move extremely fast. Flesh offering's movement speed bonus does not make too much of a difference for zombies. The attack speed, however, is very nice.
The time where I can think that this has some impact is when doing Elreon's mission, where there are times where your zombies travel quite a bit. So for that specific mission, every bit of extra movement speed is helpful.

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and can we stop twisting the concept of +1 skele / zombie into some sort of negative?

Who is saying it is a negative? More is better. But it is not anywhere near the same level as +1 spectre.

more minion anything would be great. loved the +1 zombie/+2 skeletons to chest. sucks that minion damage is a corrupt mod on helmet and amulet.

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Saltychipmunk a écrit :

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raics a écrit :

You're off again, we don't care about SRSers or other builds here. The point is +1 spectre is the most valuable possible mod for a straight summoner, something like +1 power charge for a crit build, and you don't see +1 power charge as a rare mod. Hell, you don't see it at all except on one unique wand with a semi-drawback that people don't use very often and on a staff tailored for attackers.

you dont see a power charge , but you totally see 30% multi mods and 100% chance mods , im thinking that is superior for crit builds of the spell variety

my ranger doesnt get 5 power charges , but my 50% chance 30% multi quiver doesn't really care , neither do my rings , so maybe a bad example on your part

Maybe, but you probably got the point and are pretending you didn't. For most builds there are mods that are much more desirable than others, for summoners that mod is +1 spectre so its availability must be controlled. And I'm still not convinced introducing a mod that will send a few more uniques to the garbage heap is a good thing.

There are other, more fun ways to make summoners strong. For one, charges are a largely untapped potential, minions get pretty awesome charge benefits but there are very few ways for them to obtain any.

You want to cloud the wand affix pool even more?

GET OUT!!!

i never said it had to be a drop mod , last time i checked there is a perfectly good necromancer master just sitting there waiting to get a quality minion mod on wands


and no it would not send more to the heap


chober is already inferior to soul taker for dominating blow builds
queens decree is for skeleton builds and nothing else and too its credit its decent at that but the lack of aegis is what holds that unique back not the presence of absence of alternatives

midnight still has +1 zombies , up to 30% minion damage and minion speed in addition to a specter AND its down side is largely marginalized on low life / heavy es builds AND is a level 40 item

and the bones of uller will always be bis because its on the boots slot. so i am not worried about that in the slightest

and vis mortis ... is vis mortis either you like it or you dont