Economy broken, or am I missing something?

Hi All,

TL;DR: Economy is broken, ex drops are poor, RnG isn't good, level cap needs to go.

So, I've been playing PoE pretty solidly for about 2 weeks now, grinding through normal/cruel/merciless to finally reach the "end game" maps. Sure, I've not done "everything", but I've completed all side quests, cleared all the corrupted areas and got 2 "ranks" in challenges.

I'm doing ok? I think so. I got my level 75 witch, she's coming together nicely (needs more ES and blocking!), but whats holding me back is the inability to find gear.

So what do you do? Turn to the market, the shops, the aggregation websites to find that the items I need, 6S6L chest are >75 Ex in ambush league. The process of grinding to level 75 drains all the orbs you find or get from vendors (seriously RnG is shit), to be left with nothing to trade other than 3rd rate rares that sell for one to two chaos each (if you are lucky).

I've mentioned in another thread that my alt (my witch) is way more lucky than my other chars, 4 ex drops so far, but that can't be the way ex's are seeded!

I know that the XP will start to diminish soon as I reach level 80 (reading other threads about the lack of high level map drops is concerning), but doe that mean I will get my 6S6L chest when I'm nearly 100???? What's the point of that?

We all like levelling up, the 1 passive point is like a win button, but there comes a point where you can't move forward because of your gear and the fact that the drop rates are pretty poor the "levelling game" becomes tedious and pointless.

Go off on a tangent, if I do reach the higher echelons of 90+ level, then what? Remove the level cap, but thats another thread.

As for the economy, there has to be achievable ways to generate "cash". I would have expected at least one ex per map for the end game. The map drops are pitiful, but I do thank all the guys that make their maps public so I can at least get something from the game.

Two weeks in, level 75, I'm kinda feeling this game won't last......

Sure, I'm a 2 week scrub/noob, so forgive me.

o/

Wait, you need a 6L item? Holy shit, that's one hell of a build you're using that needs all six links! As for the 75 exalts for a 6L... You're either talking about best in slot or Shavronne's Wrappings. Again, do you really need best in slot stuff? Yes, the economy for these items and exalted orbs in generally is massively inflated. Fortunately, you can play the game without these items just fine. In fact, if you're that worried about it, get 10-15 exalts and you can make any item of yours a 6L through the unending lotteries. Time spent may vary.

The level cap is there because they want to support the rerolling of characters. Reaching level 100 with the current level of content in the game, while better than when maps were lower, is still a rather ridiculous effort that requires almost as much effort as reaching 99 in Diablo 2. Except instead of having bot-run Baal and Sanctuary runs, you have to maintain a pool of 77+ maps that cost money to roll and can potentially dry up and lower your maps to 76 or lower.

As far as money goes, you shouldn't be poor at level 75. Most people save as many of their orbs as possible, given that random rares you find and blues you transmute can get you to 60 easily and a few alched items can carry you through to maps. You just need to make builds that aren't gear reliant to start (like in every game, now that I think about it) and you already mention that you can get decent 3rd rate rares for a measly chaos orb.

My TLDR? Everything you talked about is fine except for the stupid uniques that should never have existed and a lack of crafting inflating the economy. By no means is it currently healthy, but it's not so broken you can't play the game.

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Xikorut a écrit :

Wait, you need a 6L item? Holy shit, that's one hell of a build you're using that needs all six links! As for the 75 exalts for a 6L... You're either talking about best in slot or Shavronne's Wrappings. Again, do you really need best in slot stuff?

Not specifically, my point is that the cost of such an item is way inflated and isn't based on any grounding metric. Who decided that exalts were the defecto top tier currency? Seems a little broken to me. I personally think Alchemy orbs are better, sure I'm new and don't know the mechanics like the vets.

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Xikorut a écrit :

Yes, the economy for these items and exalted orbs in generally is massively inflated. Fortunately, you can play the game without these items just fine. In fact, if you're that worried about it, get 10-15 exalts and you can make any item of yours a 6L through the unending lotteries. Time spent may vary.

Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed what I've played so far and have got 3 chars to the "end game" and spent some $$ (well ££) to support GGG since I'm that kind of guy.

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Xikorut a écrit :

The level cap is there because they want to support the rerolling of
characters.

Hmm, sure I read somewhere that GGG us to have alts instead of re-rolling... I can see re-rolling within the bounds of the class (already kinda done that)

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Xikorut a écrit :

Reaching level 100 with the current level of content in the game, while better than when maps were lower, is still a rather ridiculous effort that requires almost as much effort as reaching 99 in Diablo 2. Except instead of having bot-run Baal and Sanctuary runs, you have to maintain a pool of 77+ maps that cost money to roll and can potentially dry up and lower your maps to 76 or lower.

I'm kinda glad about that, I really don't want to get to 100, in fact I really wished I was slowed down around 40/50! As for having a pool of maps, I just hope I get the drops, have the currency to buy them or join a group thats running them.

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Xikorut a écrit :

As far as money goes, you shouldn't be poor at level 75.

I'm not sure if I'm rich or poor, 2 ex, 43c, 31 alc's, 49 fuse, 43 chrome, 60 jewellers, 2 GCP's and a bunch of the easier stuff... What defines rich? I've played EvE Online for 6 years, I have a shit tonne of their currency (singular) I know if I'm rich or poor. If I look at the PoE markets I guess I'm poor.

Thanks for the reply.

6L items are pretty damn rare, and as such, have a fair expense linked to them. You go from 2ex for a Tabula or trash 6L to something like 60+ for a Shavronne's. In relation to time needed it's really not that build until you talk about GOOD 6Ls.

On the rerolling, you're right, I chose a bad word. I meant rerolling some alternate characters, not literally redoing the same one.

For maps, it's honestly all luck or depending on others. From my experience, I haven't even found a single map above 73 and mostly relied on running 75+ maps my friends had in stock. I'm running 71s as my "base." I think I've found 2 Cartographer boxes in maps, and those are really the only reason the system isn't the same trash as before in Ambush.

As for your currency, it's far from poor and far from rich. You can easily spend that 4ish ex to get decent gear that will let you plow through all but the hardest map bosses. As always, though, build factors heavily into cost. You can gear a Spectral Throw character to beat Atziri with money to buy generic rares and an Alpha's Howl and Lightning Coil. The weapon just needs to be fast, so you could literally just roll a 27% attack speed foil and not be decidedly weaker than another. For CoC bow builds, your life is a little harder because you can't effectively use CoC over a regular 5L until you have a decent crit chance, generally requiring a decent Harbinger bow.

Appreciate the reply.

I think you understand what I'm getting at though. I think I have good rares (not sure how I could show you out of game), but the fundamental base is the orbs and their perceived value.

While I truly don't understand the value of exalts since I've never seen the need to use one, I can't fathom why they are seen as the core currency for what could be perceived as "good" items. I even lmfao at people selling stuff for 1 or 2 mirrors (reading the forums they seem more rare than rocking horse excrement). Add to that the idiocy of the player base (no offence intended) that seem to think its right to put a a 10/20/30 ex price tag on rare items.

Sure, I just don't get it, I don't have the history of being here from closed/open beta etc. If exalts drops were a little more frequent I could kinda get the idea, but with exalts being so "rare" the prices seem extreme hence a broken economy.

GGG aren't controlling it either, unless they decided that exalts where the higher tier currency, since their RnG is not delivering the balance.

Sure I get that unique's need to be expensive, and 6L's too, but since the economy has no controls there is bound to be a disparity between the supply of exalts (drops) and those that think they can charge silly amounts.

Anyway, I've re-rolled my 5L chest with new socket colours (don't ask how many chromes it took) so I can at least try something new.

o/

exalts are 'the currency' because of their drop rate. their implicit 'function' is meh and not worth the money. i exalted two items and got one good result and one.. lets not talk about that (btw do not try this with your exalts. it is playground of the 'rich')

they are valuable because these are rare. not because these do something extra (mirrors and eternals are such orbs)

and sadly - because laundering them is easy. people rmt in exalts because exalts are used as currency because people rmt in exalts. vicious circle.

the 'better' exalt result:

In diablo 2:
build character, play character, mf with character, find some gears, complete character,
start 2nd character partly with found gear and buy decent gear for the rest, fill up with selffound items.

In path of exile
build character, play character, play more with character, play even more with character,
build 2nd character, play & level him,
build 3rd character,
build 4th character
build 5th character.

you can't even realistically finish building one character just by playing and trading irregularly. you have to be determined to finish one, dont use any currency whatsoever, trade anything early to get at least something for it, farm mindnumbing content with built-in delays over and over, sell each and every item.


for once i would reallyy like to finish a character after playing 3 laddders of playing poe (85 standard, 90 domination, 92 ambush, + x alts, no char finished)

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sidtherat a écrit :

exalts are 'the currency' because of their drop rate.

....

they are valuable because these are rare. not because these do something extra (mirrors and eternals are such orbs)

I get the rarity, sure it makes sense, but for players to try and sell something for stupid amounts of exalts implies that that exalts aren't that rare, or the people that could buy them are vets with banks of orbs, which would never buy them them because they are looking for something better...

My point is, there is a gap between the the price of rares, the supply of exalts, the players that would actually benefit from the item and the actual value of the item. That just screams broken economy to me.

Just messaged a person for a 6S6L chest, he wanted 65 ex for it, told him I'd rather save for Shav's :P

I'm sure he/she thinks its worth it, decent resists and ES, but seriously, I can't see why anyone would spend that kind of "cash", not for the effort it takes to generate the funds!

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sidtherat a écrit :

and sadly - because laundering them is easy. people rmt in exalts because exalts are used as currency because people rmt in exalts. vicious circle.

So a quick google search for RMT exalts, 80 x Exalted Orb $279.20.........

I rest my case.

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Astroyka a écrit :

While I truly don't understand the value of exalts since I've never seen the need to use one, I can't fathom why they are seen as the core currency for what could be perceived as "good" items. I even lmfao at people selling stuff for 1 or 2 mirrors (reading the forums they seem more rare than rocking horse excrement). Add to that the idiocy of the player base (no offence intended) that seem to think its right to put a a 10/20/30 ex price tag on rare items.

Sure, I just don't get it, I don't have the history of being here from closed/open beta etc. If exalts drops were a little more frequent I could kinda get the idea, but with exalts being so "rare" the prices seem extreme hence a broken economy.

The economy would be broken if anything, including the best items, cost nothing or close to nothing. PoE economy is quite healthy instead. Item prices represent their true value in utility and crafting costs quite accuratly, including some hype factors for which are considered to become legacy or have increased demand in the future. Still of course some ppl are overpricing and some want to move shit fast. It is about you to find the fair value of an item.

PoE is a game which requires you to solidly learn and plan your resource management in the endgame. This is half the fun of the game and very challenging.

All orbs values are determined by the market and its participants, so are exalted orbs. Exalteds are required to craft the best items in game (which new player should keep their hands off). Exalted orbs are rare, but only when you consider what a single player can realistically find. If you multiply it with the number of active players, then they are not so rare anymore.


About 6L: The game will not give you a 6L item for free. Not even if you reach lvl 100. This is luckily not Diablo 3 where you can do whatever you want and it wont make a difference for your progress in levels or drops. Getting a 6L is a kind of goal for anyone who starts the game.

When you get into mapping, you need to learn which map mods your build can play well and which not. If you don't you wont progress at all. After all you will need to step by step improve your gear and build to overcome weaknesses. Therefore you should set up an item shop where you sell stuff and then buy new items that inprove you, sell your formerly used stuff again (if not needed anymore). Big knowledge is required to do so. There is hardly any player who can evaluate any item in the game instantly without any research. Too many builds and too many variations of mid quality items are available.

This being said, I wonder why you ask for a removal of lvl cap at all after being here for 2 weeks. First get to 100, then we talk again.