Dual wield daggers = fail ?

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BrianWeissman a écrit :

Some good news: there are several AOE skills in the pipeline that will use Daggers and Claws, so dual wielders have something to look forward to!

Good news indeed! Thanks Brian :)

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Zakaluka a écrit :

[...]
Anyway, counter point time. You can have the last word.

one thing to consider for a physical damage build at least is how armor scales. because of this one big hit is better than the same damage in two hits.

just thought to put it out there.

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Theli7 a écrit :

Can someone detail the math for this effective difference between main hand and off-hand attack speed with dual strike?

Edit: Or even if it matters which hand is faster for dual strike calculations.

Under normal dual-wielding conditions, you alternate weapons. If your mainhand is 1.7aps, that means one attack takes 1/1.7=0.588 seconds. If your offhand is 1.2aps, that means one attack takes 1/1.2=0.833 seconds. Attack once with each would then take 0.588+0.833=1.422 seconds; divide by 2 to get 0.711 seconds per attack, which is equivalent to 1/0.711=1.41aps.

Dual Strike only uses mainhand attack speed. Offhand speed isn't considered at all. This makes it much easier to calculate.

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Zakaluka a écrit :

Anyway, counter point time. You can have the last word.

Maybe later. Too busy for epic maths now.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

Dual Strike only uses mainhand attack speed.

Are you sure about this?

Is the character sheet screen lying?

When I equip a slower claw in my offhand, the attack time goes goes up and attacks per second goes down for Dual Strike.

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halfdead2 a écrit :

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Zakaluka a écrit :

[...]
Anyway, counter point time. You can have the last word.

one thing to consider for a physical damage build at least is how armor scales. because of this one big hit is better than the same damage in two hits.

just thought to put it out there.

Not sure if you're referring to Frenzy or Dual strike/Cleave, but Dual strike and I assume Cleave are considered a single hit. They calculate each weapon damage separately but then add it all as one single big hit.

Zakaluka on my initial point before I went to bed, there is a pretty big difference in efficiency between attacks that use both hands and attacks that use only one hand when DWing. Sure you get the 15%aspeed bonus for DWing all the time, but that comes at the cost of 15%block(well slightly less I guess, more like 10-12% on usual shields) and you replace stats that are often not entirely used due to being local for shield stuff. It's a tradeoff that I don't find very advantageous for DWing but still it's a tradeoff.

When you use Dualstrike or Cleave however, you get one more advantage, it's all the +flat dmg stuff on your gear counting twice, once for each weapon. Auras especially but also random jewelery and what not with +6-66lightning or whatever, these are applied on each hand then both hands are added up, that means you pretty much double the benefits from these and while the skills are definitely adjusted down to compensate, it's still a very large buff.

That's where using other abilities lose out imo and why if you're gonna use others, you might as well use a shield(but that's personnal preference, however the advantage to DW over shield on other skills isn't really worth the sacrifice imo).

I knew about the abilities in the works though, Brian mentionned it before on Kripp's stream(which arguably is the best part of the stream, devs dropping in and answering questions ^^), specifically said something about a whirlwind type skill that's usable with dual claws(and hopefully dual daggers, or could be another).

Anyway in the end I'm a firm believer DW is viable, unlike other people think, I just think it'd be a lot stronger if they had other options than Cleave for aoe that used the mechanics benefit from DWing. Once these are added I think DW Claw or DW Dagger will be very strong.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

Dual Strike only uses mainhand attack speed. Offhand speed isn't considered at all. This makes it much easier to calculate.

So what the dev said here is untrue?

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Mark_GGG a écrit :

Dual and Double strike both take your attack time (determined by your weapon) to execute. For any set amount of attack speed, double strike and dual strike should take the same duration, except in the case where you have a slow main-hand weapon and a fast off-hand weapon - in which case double strike uses only the main hand attack duration, but dual strike uses the average of the two.

Can anyone else confirm either way?