Reset Skill Tree?

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Nightprowler a écrit :

The point was that during beta you are aware that everything is going to be wiped so you don't care about making mistakes or experimenting.

Once the game goes live, having to re-roll or making a 'mistake' that forces a re-roll interferes with the leveling process especially when leveling with friends.

All that is fine, yay, old school game, hard choice, adapt or be eaten. woot!

Just saying that to someone coming in and seeing it all for the first time when the game is live and choice mean something it will be overwhelming if you don't have an easy out for those first mistakes.

the difference is.. i grew up after the entitlement generation, and im not looking for the "easy out" as you put it.

i know i will have to re-roll.. i dont mind it.. even working 2 jobs i still find time to play, levels come so easy in this game, people who bitch and moan about rerolling are going to bitch and moan about something else if you give them free respecs.. they wont stop until the game is as watered down as... well.. most other games now days..

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Nightprowler a écrit :

Just saying that to someone coming in and seeing it all for the first time when the game is live and choice mean something it will be overwhelming if you don't have an easy out for those first mistakes.

There is a thread in the suggestions forum that actually addresses this in a compromising way to allow for a less steep learning curve around the PassiveST.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/41567

Summary:

1) Allow for the loading of a highlighted Path to your character's PST in game.
2) Have a few generic/descriptive (up to level 30) builds available to choose from.
3) Allow players to use the PST on the web to save builds to import.


This will be awesome for Theory-crafters, remove some of the learning curve for beginners, and minimize bouncing back and forth with the PST while selecting where to place your points.

As long as you don't spend 60 levels going in the wrong direction the ENTIRE time you will be fine. At worst you stop playing the character you screwed up on and level another completely different character and use the orbs of Regret you find along the way to help your initial character. Or you farm with your screwed up character and trade for Orbs of Regret. The Orbs of Regret aren't super common but they aren't super rare either.

Oh and choices we make in Closed Beta do matter. It is our time and investment into the character and the game that we are testing which is invaluable to the longevity of the game. Personally I like the fact that my choices matter. The option to fix my mistakes is there but it's not as simple as travel to a city, find the npc, click a button, pay some small insignificant fee, and presto blammo allakhazam I have a new character essentially.


*Edit: I heard somewhere along the way that they were going to make the build planner accessible in game but I didn't here it from a GGG source myself not do I have a link to point to. Would solve a lot of problems as well because then you would have NO excuse not to use it.

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Mr_Smith a écrit :

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Float a écrit :

im one of these people. i spend alot of time theorycrafting and optimising builds. if you make a mistake here and there, orb of regret plus like 9(?) or so respecs by level 60 should be enough. but i dont want to see whole build changes with the click of a button.

+1 to this guy

QFT.

This may seem harsh to the n00bs... err I mean casuals, but it's not really. Rerolling a character and learning from your mistakes were part of the fun in D2 and other MMOs, in my humble opinion. Everybody starts out as a n00b, it's the choices we make and whether we enjoy using our time playing the game to learn that allows us to become good players. That's the rewarding aspect of the game. Besides, getting to level 50+ is really not that hard nor does it take that long (probably 2-3 weeks tops if you're casual, and shouldn't be much longer if you're very casual).

If you want to level a character to 80+ and you've never realized from level 50-80 that you were doing something very wrong in your passive skill tree then.. ya.. maybe consider taking more time thinking/researching/analyzing your choices before finalizing them? I also question how you were able to get to such high level while being brain-dead about your character. And yes.. believe it or not, being able to think, research, and analyze what decisions to make are actually good traits to have as an individual in our society (despite the outrageous undervaluation of these traits in many cultures).

Or go play Angry Birds. That's pretty casual, mindless, and don't really have many consequences for being unprepared. Different games are fun for different people; a gamer's game is more meant for us hardcore crowd while a more casual game is more meant for the casual crowd. There's nothing wrong with it and I am not trying to pass any judgement at all, their are just different game types aimed for different audiences similar to how different movies are aimed for different people (e.g. I am sure not everybody likes watching Horror movies, etc).

A good game should reward players who have skills and knowledge, not anyone who can go onto the forums, read someone's build, and copy it. Nor is it for people who can Pay2Win. By the way, GGG does a very good job in stating explicitly that they are really preventing Pay2Win from happening with the ethical microtransactions that doesn't actually give players any power and mostly only aesthetics. If they decide to back their words on it, I think a non-insignificant number of players will quit the community.

Besides, with such a lenient number of respec points from quests and trading some of your currency items for a good number of Orbs of Regret if you're a very high level shouldn't be much of a problem anyway. People just don't want to pay for their mistakes and would like to copy the "pros" build/current OP build of the week is what I am hearing. If you don't want to pay for your mistakes, then don't--plan ahead and own. If you want to experiment, feel free to experiment, nobody's stopping you. If this game takes too much of your time that you would rather not spend, then don't play it. There's a reason why I stopped playing Lineage 2 due to it being a massively boring grind fest. I don't think this game will be a boring grind fest due to all the end game content, PVP, and awesome number of customizations and builds, but YMMV.

P.S. This post wasn't meant to sound condescending, but I am just very opposed to dumbing down games and their mechanics for casuals while ruining the experience for the hardcore gamer's. This is a gamer's game, after all. There are plenty of MMOs/RPGs that allow you to repec. Try D3--they dumbed it down for you so you only get 6 choices in each skill (with only 1-3 of them being actually good) and you can reroll/redo your character how many times you like. How was the fun and replay value of that game?

Please there is enough 'casual' vs 'hardcore' vs 'noob' vs 'etc' talk in those other forums. I hope to [insert object of reverence] that it doesn't carry over here.

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Dark0mens a écrit :

... *Edit: I heard somewhere along the way that they were going to make the build planner accessible in game but I didn't here it from a GGG source myself not do I have a link to point to. Would solve a lot of problems as well because then you would have NO excuse not to use it.

You heard right. Chris said they plan to implement something of this nature during the Q&A/conversations while in Kripparian's first stream of the Open Beta weekend. Whether this will come to fruition and when is another story. This is low priority for them anyway (especially since the passive skill tree planner is on the website already--it's just an extra step one has to do for now, that's all), they're working on more important issues such as PVP and making sure other game systems are in place before Open Beta begins because once Open Beta starts, there won't be any more wipes. So unless you want GGG to alter items drastically by not working on and testing them well beforehand like tripling the repair costs.. err I mean exp penalty for dying or reducing your movement speed bonus on your boots by half or something :), then we need to wait patiently for the user interface, key binding, mini-map, and other lower priority tweaks/fixes.

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Nightprowler a écrit :

Please there is enough 'casual' vs 'hardcore' vs 'noob' vs 'etc' talk in those other forums. I hope to [insert object of reverence] that it doesn't carry over here.

I dont like those hardcore arguments also, but look at LoL.
It is a diablo3 among MOBA games, and everyone thinks they are good and that everyone else sucks. And, they make sure everyone in every game knows that.
These days if you dont divide ppl into harcore and casula groups they will just all turn into "pro" dumbasses, this way you just have 1 group of hardcore dumbasses.

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wade001 a écrit :

Just saying that to someone coming in and seeing it all for the first time when the game is live and choice mean something it will be overwhelming if you don't have an easy out for those first mistakes.

Good. The tree isn't that overwhelming either. After I took a couple looks at it and planned out a build everything seemed pretty straightforward to me. I've easily became familiar with the tree. When I first started, I rerolled 4 times because of mistakes or because I wanted to change something. So what? If people quit because of that let them, and this game will be better without them.

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Nightprowler a écrit :

Please there is enough 'casual' vs 'hardcore' vs 'noob' vs 'etc' talk in those other forums. I hope to [insert object of reverence] that it doesn't carry over here.

Okay... and you DO know that this game was geared towards the more hardcore crowd right? Chris has said this himself during one of his conversations/interviews with players that this was more the niche PoE was shooting for. However, he did say that he does try to have the game appeal to a wide number of different players and doesn't want to alienate anyone.

But where do you draw the line? At some point some players are just very casual gamers and wouldn't care about a game that requires thinking or making interesting/good decisions and would prefer games that give them instant gratification or epeen. And like I said, that's all cool and perfectly acceptable, but that in no way means one should dumb down a gamer's game for them. There are plenty of more casuals RPGs out there.

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BJSV a écrit :

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Nightprowler a écrit :

Please there is enough 'casual' vs 'hardcore' vs 'noob' vs 'etc' talk in those other forums. I hope to [insert object of reverence] that it doesn't carry over here.

I dont like those hardcore arguments also, but look at LoL. It is a diablo3 among MOBA games, and everyone thinks they are good and that everyone else sucks. And, they make sure everyone in every game knows that.
These days if you dont divide ppl into harcore and casula groups they will just all turn into "pro" dumbasses, this way you just have 1 group of hardcore dumbasses.

I don't want to get too much into it, but I disagree with what you said about LoL being the D3 among MOBA. It's actually quite the opposite. It is more true to the original DoTA from Warcraft 3 which most people may not have even played before. It's way different from the imbalanced DoTA Allstars in WC3 TFT that people think was the original dota. It's not. In DoTA Allstars the focus was on getting an uber powerful hero and kill everyone and less about winning (not saying it's not important, but getting kills, k/d/r, and epeen was more prominent).

Heck one hero can take on 3 heroes, you can never do that in the original DoTA or LoL. In the original DoTA (and by extension LoL since it is the true successor), the focus is on teamwork and seiging to win. No one hero can become so OP that they can dominate the other team because the items aren't super OP (with ridiculous amount of +damage, or heck, practically most items have some form of +damage for some reason!) like those seen in DoTA Allstars.

Sorry for getting off-topic, but there is too much misinformation floating around the internet.