Why I think cross-league trading is just as bad as real-money trading

I was really surprised GGG put up a forum for it. It seemed to be completely counter to everything they had said about leagues before. Each league should be isolated, I feel. Of course I also think that dead hardcore players should be deleted simply because I don't want their stuff bloating up default even more.

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NotRegret a écrit :

The fact that there are 'pro' players like kripp who consistently win races tells us there is a certain element of skill.

Another sign there is skill is that some players can create a HC character and not die till their character is level 80ish, while other plays can create HC characters and never make it past cruel.

Yes; I didn't say, nor do I think, that there's no skill involved.

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Although this is true in a hard sense, in an effective sense it is not; cross-league trading transforms the Hardcore player's "worthless" death-to-Default items into a usable commodity. This makes the Default economy feel the full force of inflation due to Hardcore-to-Default death-based transfers.

Well. On certain days one wonders if the HC default should be done away with. But that's a different discussion.

I guess I merely took your comment as "damages the integrity of HC," which it cannot do, because no currency can flow to an HC player that doesn't originate from an HC player. If what you are saying is that the majority of SC->HC trades occur like this:

1. HC player defaults
2. HC player sells gear on SC
3. HC player requests that a player who plays in both leagues give him 1:3 HC:SC currency and makes an SC trade.

... if that is what you are saying the main sequence of events is, then what you are saying in effect is that step #2 would not happen without this series of events, and therefore the SC (not HC) game is compromised in some fashion.

That very well may be, but it's also fully compromised in the following fashion:

1. HC player defaults
2. HC player gives away all gear on SC

That's pretty likely too, and I wonder if it's not more common than #3.

I mean, how many players play in both leagues?

Anyway, here's how I would handle this:

1. Allow an HC character at creation time to click a box that adds 40 life to their char.
2. If that box was clicked, there is no default. The character is gone forever when it dies.

Since all sane HC players would take #1, that would remove all the flow from HC to SC to speak of.

---C

I have it on good authority that not all of the devs wanted to have this controversial board put up, but in the end I suppose it comes down to a case of acknowledging it happens and accepting that it's very, very hard to police.

The 'UNSAFE' clause indicates to me GGG's stance on it.

As ever, caveat emptor. "We don't encourage this, we don't endorse it, but if you really must do it, at least do it here."

Some parents (mine included) have a very similar attitude to me and underage drinking.

Now if only GGG could figure out a way to ground players instead of just force them to sneak out the window via alt accounts...

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Courageous a écrit :

1. Allow an HC character at creation time to click a box that adds 40 life to their char.
2. If that box was clicked, there is no default. The character is gone forever when it dies.

Since all sane HC players would take #1, that would remove all the flow from HC to SC to speak of.

Or just make all equipment worn on league-transferred characters (not just Hardcore, races too) account-bound (or perhaps Mirrored), so they can't give it away or trade it to anyone (or maybe they can, but it can't be further modified, which devalues it some). This still allows people to use their dead Hardcore or race characters as a Default league springboard, while removing the incentive to unload and return to the original league.

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Or just make all equipment worn on league-transferred characters (not just Hardcore, races too) account-bound (or perhaps Mirrored), so they can't give it away or trade it to anyone (or maybe they can, but it can't be further modified, which devalues it some). This still allows people to use their dead Hardcore or race characters as a Default league springboard, while removing the incentive to unload and return to the original league.

Your solution is simpler and more elegant than mine, yes.

--C

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Courageous a écrit :

"

Or just make all equipment worn on league-transferred characters (not just Hardcore, races too) account-bound (or perhaps Mirrored), so they can't give it away or trade it to anyone (or maybe they can, but it can't be further modified, which devalues it some). This still allows people to use their dead Hardcore or race characters as a Default league springboard, while removing the incentive to unload and return to the original league.

Your solution is simpler and more elegant than mine, yes.

--C

I like this idea.

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Courageous a écrit :

"

Although this is true in a hard sense, in an effective sense it is not; cross-league trading transforms the Hardcore player's "worthless" death-to-Default items into a usable commodity. This makes the Default economy feel the full force of inflation due to Hardcore-to-Default death-based transfers.

Well. On certain days one wonders if the HC default should be done away with. But that's a different discussion.

I guess I merely took your comment as "damages the integrity of HC," which it cannot do, because no currency can flow to an HC player that doesn't originate from an HC player. If what you are saying is that the majority of SC->HC trades occur like this:

1. HC player defaults
2. HC player sells gear on SC
3. HC player requests that a player who plays in both leagues give him 1:3 HC:SC currency and makes an SC trade.

... if that is what you are saying the main sequence of events is, then what you are saying in effect is that step #2 would not happen without this series of events, and therefore the SC (not HC) game is compromised in some fashion.

/snip

Even in this scenario, the integrity of HC competitiveness has been compromised because you now have someone giving gear (read gameplay advantage) to another player for free which they would otherwise not give (without receiving equivalent HC trade value in return). This is basically the same as bribing the opposing team in a sporting match to deliberately play poorly and throw you the game, although in practical terms, cross-league trading is a much milder version of this.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

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wonko33 a écrit :

P1 wants to sell an item in default
P2 tell him that if he receives this item in default league, his Hardcore character will give something to P1's character in hardcore?

Yes.

Many people are scammed by a sneeky item-swap between two trade-windows.
Last week I wondered, how you could possibly betray someone by taking a worthless item and giving it back again and paying currency beforehand!? (possible?)

And now I read THIS!

This is something I would only do with friends...
"Hey, I want to buy this new watch, I'll just take it and come back tomorrow with the cash, ok?"

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

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Courageous a écrit :

1. Allow an HC character at creation time to click a box that adds 40 life to their char.
2. If that box was clicked, there is no default. The character is gone forever when it dies.

Since all sane HC players would take #1, that would remove all the flow from HC to SC to speak of.

Or just make all equipment worn on league-transferred characters (not just Hardcore, races too) account-bound (or perhaps Mirrored), so they can't give it away or trade it to anyone (or maybe they can, but it can't be further modified, which devalues it some). This still allows people to use their dead Hardcore or race characters as a Default league springboard, while removing the incentive to unload and return to the original league.

I would support bound items in this fashion.