3.11 [HARVEST UPDATE] One with Nothing Zerk. 12-22m dps Cyclone 7.6k Life

This is going to be my last reply to your posts as it seems like you are someone who is [Removed by Support] and extremely defensive against other's opinions and/or constructive criticism and I no longer want to be a part of this debate [Removed by Support]. Nor do I want to flood OP's build guide any further.

I was making comments based on YOUR CURRENT PoB, and what I see at that time. You making adjustments by changing flask(s) etc before or after my comment has nothing to do with what I had said prior.

Learn to think outside the box especially in a game like PoE. There is no such a thing as "one" absolute or correct way to construct a build. I am not always right, and neither are you in terms of Gear/Pathing choices in any particular build. So cut the BS with thinking your way is the only way to approach a specific build and saying that other's interpretation of the build is incorrect. I don't understand how something as simple as this is so hard to get through to you.

You repeatedly mention shock immunity as if it is some god-tier buff that is mandatory for the build. While I agree it is always good to have more aliment immunity especially for HC players, but is it mandatory? NOPE. Especially with the measly life that you have? Face it, you will die more often than not regardless of shock especially taking into account that you took IR meaning you will be tanking all incoming hits and never able to fully mitigate any damage source.

There is so many other inaccuracies with your PoB DPS after further diving in. You only have 10% chance to proc intimidate but you checked that in configs anyways despite the fact that you won't have constant uptime on it. There are many other similar issues so your DPS is not as nearly as high as you claimed it to be on your posted PoB. Talk about hypocrisy and false representation? I would of been happy to discuss these issues with you and see where improvements could of been made but I am not going to bother now as you will probably be in denial again.

Deeming a gear choice as "dumb" repeatedly after conducting incorrect testing methods just further proves [Removed by Support]. Anyways take care and stay safe!

Thank god this is your last reply, and it seems your comment of "quite ignorant and extremely defensive against other's opinions" is referring to yourself.

I found that you are not just being ignorant on other's opinions but also lack of knowledge of reading path of building "calculation"

Let me break down where is the "DUMB" decision come from.

1.I wouldn't have used this word if you did not portrait the way that you were trying to tell others "what is right" in your min max experience in terms of "berserk enchant" and completely ignorant of the facts with evidence provided.

2.You were so stubborn and trying to defend your "wrong information" by using tons of words as if you are truly knowledgeable to something while you do not even have enough experience min max this build by saying excuses of how you would like to change a build style during end of the league, try out different cluster...bla bla bla, yet you have completely overhaul the entire marauder build to some other cyclone build. Guess you must be very rich and have tons of exalted orbs sitting in your stash. Look! it's a build guide for general public but not based on your rich meme.

3.I will now break down how dumb of your enchant decision in mathematical way, just to show how ignorant you are.



40% rage loss has 6% less attack speed, 6% less damage taken and 9% less movement speed. during berserk.

Let's multiply these difference by the chart beloew



Fomula for 30% buff

For every second increase, the previous value of rage loss of X=Y*1.2

Fomula for 40% rage loss

For every second increase, the previous value of rage loss of X=Y*1.12

Again with the support of fomula calculation.

It shows 40% reduced rage loss is not efficient to this build at all, and you kept arguing with your non facts, isn't this "dumb"?

That was quite a exchange between the two of you. Now that @Yummy has stopped, hopefully you will as well @Realm. There is no need to spam someone else's build guide, take it via DM if needed.

I do want to point out that your chart is quite flawed however, first off, it is weird how you are directly comparing the DPS of a increase damage enchant to a increase duration enchant like this. It just doesn't work this way. Other notes : rage loss begins at 3 with the rage loss enchant, there is a big DPS loss during the "Void" period of time when berserk is down with the buff effect enchant, amongst many other. So I have to agree with @Yummy on many of these aspect. But I am not trying to continue this discussion any further than it is already, more of a food for thought thing. At the end both enchants are great, one is for a higher burst and the other is for a better QOL, why not let the players choose which works better for them depending on the contents they like?

Most importantly, hope everyone is still doing great during this pandemic!

Whether rage loss is started at 3 or 4.4 is debatable.

My formula is based on official description

By default, berserk has lose 5 Rage per second
Each second, 20% more Rage loss Rate

If you are only looking at lose 5 Rage per second, it's 3 no doubt.

But If you take in the factor of Each second, 20% more Rage loss Rate, it is 4.4.

There is no official information on the reduce rage loss is based on 3 rage loss per second as you said, or it's counted as 40% reduced out of 20% more rage loss.

So I went for real experiment by comparing uptime shown that the time duration of rage loss is based on 4.4's formula set, if rage loss is starting at 3, the uptime will only last 19 Sec, chart is below.

The formula for 40% reduce rage loss if the fist second is 3
X=(5*0.6) for 1 second
X=(5*0.6)*(1+20%) for 2 second



or assuming both berserk has lose 5 Rage per second
Each second, 20% more Rage loss Rate has reduced 40% loss, this could be another possible outcome.

The formula for above-mentioned is
X=(5*0.6) for 1 second
X=(5*0.6)*(1+20%*(100%-40%)) X=3*1.12 for 2 second

The chart and uptime is nearly identical to 4.4's formula set, and shown that it has suffer from low dps output for long duration of time before berserk ends.




By looking at the chart result and direct compare to video recording shown that my chart is very closed to official's calculation, feel free to flip back to the last page and watch my video, clear as that :)


If X is current rage state.

If Y is berserk has lose 5 Rage per second
Each second, 20% more Rage loss Rate


The formula for default rage loss is
X=Y*(1+20%)
X=Y*(1+0.2)
X=Y*1.2


The formula for 40% reduced rage loss is
X=Y*(1+20%*(100%-40%))
X=Y*(1+0.2*(1-0.4))
X=Y*1.12

It is based on berserk has lose 5 Rage per second
Each second, 20% more Rage loss Rate has reduce 40% rage loss
with a compound interest.

I can explain Void period is actually higher than low rage berserk period, if rage avg is 0~15 during berserk, the total dps output is actually lower than cooldown Void period as it has 20 rage after 1.3 sec, 40 rage after 2.6 sec, and 50 rage at 3.9 sec, and there is no big DPS loss like you said if you are using 30% buff enchant if you count it all the factors.

Therefore rage has 40% reduce rage enchant and has got longer low rage duration, plus it has 6% less attack spd, 6% dmg reduction and 9% less movement spd compare to 30% buff enchant in the span of 10 out of 30 seconds for 1 cycle of berserk

We are looking at performance of both enchant under the same situation.

This proof that it doesn't have better QOL than 30% buff enchant, you must also count in the factor of cry wolf stacking :)

It is balance trick, for those who really want to consider Berserk has reduced 40% enchant, you need to stack 8 mob mentality to make it efficient to dex stacking build.

With the rage loss enchant, rage loss begins at 3 undoubtedly, just refer to the actual skill description in game. I just brought one to test and confirmed it.

As for factoring in the "void" period, just follow a simple formula since PoB does not factor increased duration mods to anything. For the sake of calculation lets just assume the following (rounded):

-Berserk duration:
Increased Buff Effect - 15 Seconds
Decreased Rage Loss - 30 Seconds
-Treat Berserk as a DMG source:
Increased Buff Effect - 130% DMG
Decreased Rage Loss - 100% DMG
-Both Share a 5 second CD "Void" phase with 0% DMG after buff expires

Now the Formula to calculate the damage difference over an extended period of time: Avg Dmg per Sec = Buff Uptime(Total Duration - Buff Downtime)*DMG Percentage / Total Duration.

Using 700 seconds as the duration as they both fit into it perfectly:

Increased Buff Effect - Avg Dmg per sec = (700 - 175) * 130% / 700 = 97.5% DMG per second

Decreased Rage Loss - Avg Dmg per sec = (700 - 100) * 100% / 700 = 85.7% DMG per second

Increased Buff Effect has a ~11.8% Higher average damage compared to the Decreased Rage Loss enchant.

With that said, you are pretty much choosing between ~11.8% of extra Dmg Per Sec or 75 seconds more Berserk uptime in this scenario. Of course feel free to input exact calculations, including in fury generation, etc to get a even better sense of the differences, this is more of a quick example of how the "void" phase affects Dmg calculation.

As for QoL, I am simply referring to not having to worry about activating berserk as often and having a longer avg duration on the huge movement speed bonus from Berserk which could be quite useful when dealing with general mapping or simulacrum that doesn't require as high of a damage output.

"

realm9thfeb a écrit :

There is no official information on the reduce rage loss is based on 3 rage loss per second as you said, or it's counted as 40% reduced out of 20% more rage loss.

That's a good point, can't seem to be able to locate an official formula for the calculation of rage loss. Based on skill description alone, it is very likely it does start at 3, but at the same time it shows it is losing 20% additional rage each second. With your calculation, it would mean it only last 19 seconds which is barely longer than the increased buff enchant. However, through testing with just spamming warcry and the decreased rage loss enchant, I was able to keep it up for around ~30 seconds.

So I am thinking it is possible it starts at 3 and at the same time keeping the 1.12 multiplier as well even though that is not reflected on the description.

"

ChocoPuddin a écrit :

With the rage loss enchant, rage loss begins at 3 undoubtedly, just refer to the actual skill description in game. I just brought one to test and confirmed it.

As for factoring in the "void" period, just follow a simple formula since PoB does not factor increased duration mods to anything. For the sake of calculation lets just assume the following (rounded):

-Berserk duration:
Increased Buff Effect - 15 Seconds
Decreased Rage Loss - 30 Seconds
-Treat Berserk as a DMG source:
Increased Buff Effect - 130% DMG
Decreased Rage Loss - 100% DMG
-Both Share a 5 second CD "Void" phase with 0% DMG after buff expires

Now the Formula to calculate the damage difference over an extended period of time: Avg Dmg per Sec = Buff Uptime(Total Duration - Buff Downtime)*DMG Percentage / Total Duration.

Using 700 seconds as the duration as they both fit into it perfectly:

Increased Buff Effect - Avg Dmg per sec = (700 - 175) * 130% / 700 = 97.5% DMG per second

Decreased Rage Loss - Avg Dmg per sec = (700 - 100) * 100% / 700 = 85.7% DMG per second

Increased Buff Effect has a ~11.8% Higher average damage compared to the Decreased Rage Loss enchant.

With that said, you are pretty much choosing between ~11.8% of extra Dmg Per Sec or 75 seconds more Berserk uptime in this scenario. Of course feel free to input exact calculations, including in fury generation, etc to get a even better sense of the differences, this is more of a quick example of how the "void" phase affects Dmg calculation.

As for QoL, I am simply referring to not having to worry about activating berserk as often and having a longer avg duration on the huge movement speed bonus from Berserk which could be quite useful when dealing with general mapping or simulacrum that doesn't require as high of a damage output.

Thanks for the calculation for rough estimation, but I would like to point out 30% buff effect is not just 130% increment of damage as it's based on 30% more from 20% attack speed , 20% damage reduction and 30% movement speed and 25% character size.

It is not accurate to count it as 30% increased damage, as it's more but not increase property.

The exact calculation also varies from each character's base value, we can see that in pob's calculation tab shown below,



The berserk duration to be exacted is

-Berserk duration:
Increased Buff Effect - 18 Seconds
Decreased Rage Loss - 28 Seconds

"

realm9thfeb a écrit :

Thanks for the calculation for rough estimation, but I would like to point out 30% buff effect is not just 130% increment of damage as it's based on 30% more from 20% attack speed , 20% damage reduction and 30% movement speed and 25% character size.

It is not accurate to count it as 30% increased damage, as it's more but not increase property.

The exact calculation also varies from each character's base value, we can see that in pob's calculation tab shown below,



The berserk duration to be exacted is

-Berserk duration:
Increased Buff Effect - 18 Seconds
Decreased Rage Loss - 28 Seconds

Yep, like I said its more of a quick calculation to show the idea of how it can directly affect DPS calculations when dealing with "void" phases (which PoB can never calculate). By no means is it the most accurate version lol. To calculate the exact differences, you will need multiple different formulas for each variable for the final DPS calculation which is much MUCH more complex than it seems in a intricate game like this with all the hidden mechanics and interactions. Trust me, unless you have absolute devotion to this build, I would refrain from venturing there lol.

As a summary, IMO it still comes down to whether you prefer more DPS(higher burst) or more QoL(higher uptime).

"

ChocoPuddin a écrit :

With the rage loss enchant, rage loss begins at 3 undoubtedly, just refer to the actual skill description in game. I just brought one to test and confirmed it.

As for factoring in the "void" period, just follow a simple formula since PoB does not factor increased duration mods to anything. For the sake of calculation lets just assume the following (rounded):

-Berserk duration:
Increased Buff Effect - 15 Seconds
Decreased Rage Loss - 30 Seconds
-Treat Berserk as a DMG source:
Increased Buff Effect - 130% DMG
Decreased Rage Loss - 100% DMG
-Both Share a 5 second CD "Void" phase with 0% DMG after buff expires

Now the Formula to calculate the damage difference over an extended period of time: Avg Dmg per Sec = Buff Uptime(Total Duration - Buff Downtime)*DMG Percentage / Total Duration.

Using 700 seconds as the duration as they both fit into it perfectly:

Increased Buff Effect - Avg Dmg per sec = (700 - 175) * 130% / 700 = 97.5% DMG per second

Decreased Rage Loss - Avg Dmg per sec = (700 - 100) * 100% / 700 = 85.7% DMG per second

Increased Buff Effect has a ~11.8% Higher average damage compared to the Decreased Rage Loss enchant.

With that said, you are pretty much choosing between ~11.8% of extra Dmg Per Sec or 75 seconds more Berserk uptime in this scenario. Of course feel free to input exact calculations, including in fury generation, etc to get a even better sense of the differences, this is more of a quick example of how the "void" phase affects Dmg calculation.

As for QoL, I am simply referring to not having to worry about activating berserk as often and having a longer avg duration on the huge movement speed bonus from Berserk which could be quite useful when dealing with general mapping or simulacrum that doesn't require as high of a damage output.

Even though this is quite a rough estimation, I love how you illustrated the benefits of both enchantments. That was the point I was trying to get across but you clearly emphasized it better than me :)

The QoL from the rage loss enchant helps tremendously for speed clearing maps and especially simulacrum. I was already breezing through all contents with the damage I have and sacrificing a few Mil DPS to make mapping that much smoother is a preferred choice for me. For those who feel like they are lacking damage, definitely feel free to use the increased buff enchant instead until you feel like you have enough Dmg and would like to trade some off for increased QoL.

Great and fun build overall but it lacks in certain area so I parted with the build to try something else and to see if I want to continue this next league. General Map clear is great but not amazing due to lack of AoE and mob clearing capabilities even with pulverize support compared to other builds. Also for those who love using HH, this is not exactly a HH optimized build even though you can force one in. The build I am trying now fixes all these problem, currently with about 300~ increased AoE (near-full screen cyc) and 375%+ Movement speed making it a zoom zoom build. With Savior I have 3 mega-sized cyclones spinning around at all times which is aesthetically pleasing. It also have more than sufficient damage to clear all contents really quickly, but lets save the other details for another time :)