Stash mess

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Altnaharra a écrit :

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Tauranga a écrit :

'Remove-only' Map Stash Tabs not disappearing after they have been emptied is a known issue: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1733474

Ok, so they're working on it.
Cool, the more you know. Thanks for posting the link.
Actually very useful link. Double thanks.

(added url to make it easier) <3

If they are, it’s the lowest priority as they focus on releasing new mtx instead. It’s been what , 2 years now and continuing. Most of us have 6 or so of these, I have little faith in GGG, they don’t listen it seems.

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Altnaharra a écrit :

Do you have more detailed information about which league they came from or what league or time frame you were in when you emptied them? Do you remember which map was the last to remove from each tab? or all the maps that were in the tabs?
Was there any other form of currency in there?

In comparison to mtx sales, I believe you're quite incorrect. Have you seen the game recently? Hideouts, graphical updates, constant league expansion and implementation - these don't happen over night.


/tinfoil hat: Perhaps they are collecting map drop data, and many of the players are special contestants in, "the stash is right".

The bugged remove only tab is a common repro. This being broken isn't on the players.. it is shoddy workmanship from GGG and ridiculous to put any aspect of that on a customer. It isn't unreasonable to expect a purchase to not be so visibly broken. Did you not know about this because you have never hit it? Don't have map tabs, or don't have maps that transfer to standard from league, or never try to clean up your remove only map tabs?

My 2 cents.

Some kind of auto-sort is badly needed.

Started playing in 2012, years before any special tabs were introduced. Over couple years bought over 100 stash tabs mostly for trading, as it is very very profitable, is a necessary evil and makes poe more enjoyable (auto-trading like trade bots is a whole entire topic).

Had to buy all the special tabs and also like the quad tabs. Right now league starts tab count ends at 154. 14 league totems and several leagues before the totems were created makes about 20 stash migrations over 7 years.

Right now Standard is a MESS, without any kind of sorting auto-sorting system it will never be cleared. Oh yeah, here is the kicker.

Due to standard stash being over 2000 tabs (Looty stopped working last year) - EVERYTHING TAKES FOREVER. Entering a map - 20 second flat. Entering a hideout - 20 seconds. Opening stash - 25 seconds. Entering town - 25 seconds. Running lab? Every area change is 20-30 seconds. 10 areas to Izaro? Add 5 minutes to lab times.
To run a map takes 1 minute, and it takes 1 minute to open it and the stash afterwords.

Talking to masters and selling items is normal time of under a second like everywhere.

Seems large stash, which i can not sort now, is preventing me from playing standard league.

Started SSF but screw that.

Please make it easier for people to manage/remove/delete tabs in standard, introduce more sorting/managing/moving options for the stash.

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Altnaharra a écrit :

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Sullee a écrit :

Did you not know about this because you have never hit it? Don't have map tabs, or don't have maps that transfer to standard from league, or never try to clean up your remove only map tabs?

I keep Mustache clean, always have.

If you can still remove items/maps from it, and it's a 'free tab' basically.
You understand why it's a low priority then.

You've gone from ignorance to cluelessly blaming the customer to attempting to deflect the complaint like an apologist.

And no, it isn't a 'free tab'. The remove only tabs aren't a benefit to players they are a half-assed mess; a chore inflicted on customers by poor and lazy design.

Can you imagine if it were a 'free' tab as you say? If some ugly migration bug were giving standard players actual free tabs how quickly do you think it would get fixed? Leave standard out of it since that seems to be where people get confused; imagine if ssf migration was bugged and gave free tabs? That would be a p0 hotfix, probably outage if it was out in the wild and being exploited, and then rollbacks and account actions where needed.

Given my experience this is a no-brainer to fix and inexcusable that it has persisted this long. The scope is huge, the visibility is ugly and the fix is trivial. Believe me I understand the impact isn't game-breaking but holy crap this is just tip of the iceberg for a part of their product that fails right from the design through implementation. Content integration issues are systemically bad in this game... this is a PR nightmare waiting to happen.

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Sullee a écrit :

And no, it isn't a 'free tab'. The remove only tabs aren't a benefit to players they are a half-assed mess; a chore inflicted on customers by poor and lazy design.

It's not a literal free tab, and using that term is misleading and confusing. I was confused earlier when someone referred to Remove Only tabs like that.

What is actually meant by "free tab" is that you can plan around it. Once you know how Remove Only tabs work, you can strategically prepare your League stash in such a way that they're of benefit to you outside that league. If you have a thing in your Remove Only tabs, it removes the necessity for using one of your standard tabs to accumulate copies of the same thing - ie. you save a stash tab worth of space for every Remove Only tab you manage to fill with things you'd have otherwise hoarded on regular tabs.

Because of that, the regular Remove Only tabs are a genius move, because it means any player in Standard can hoard as much currency and uniques as he likes via Remove Only tabs, provided he plays enough Challenge League content to fill up those tabs and make the most of the opportunity every 3 months.

Special tabs such as Map Tabs are their own problem. They're broken, both mechanically and in purpose. Unlike most items gathered during a League, Maps become obsolete each time a subsequent Challenge League begins, because a new series of Maps is released to replace the old. The old Map items cannot be used after that point, so there's really no point in keeping them around.

Thus there's also no real value in the Map Tab migrating to Standard at all, because at best it allows you to withdraw and use any Maps you have stashed in it over the next 3 or 4 days, which isn't exactly a significant length of time. And when you factor-in that they're broken, cannot be manually removed, and are not automatically removed when they're empty - then it makes even less sense to migrate the things in the first place because doing so just creates problems while serving no real purpose.

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Pobatti a écrit :

Special tabs such as Map Tabs are their own problem. They're broken, both mechanically and in purpose. Unlike most items gathered during a League, Maps become obsolete each time a subsequent Challenge League begins, because a new series of Maps is released to replace the old. The old Map items cannot be used after that point, so there's really no point in keeping them around.

Thus there's also no real value in the Map Tab migrating to Standard at all, because at best it allows you to withdraw and use any Maps you have stashed in it over the next 3 or 4 days, which isn't exactly a significant length of time. And when you factor-in that they're broken, cannot be manually removed, and are not automatically removed when they're empty - then it makes even less sense to migrate the things in the first place because doing so just creates problems while serving no real purpose.

The quotes and confusion I was replying to were all about the map tab.

I was actually very pleased with the functionality of the map tab both for ease of finding\storing and the value add of showing which maps you have completed by tier being a different view than atlas.

In general the tab works fine. There is a bad bug with standard where the remove only don't go away once emptied (other remove only tabs do) which means standard players get stuck with dead tabs. It is ugly and very visible and would be fixed in a heartbeat (as it is trivial) if it weren't standard only. That bug isn't game-breaking it is just ugly and amateurish.

The quoted about maps not having any value and "The old Map items cannot be used after that point, so there's really no point in keeping them around." is wrong. GGG forks the series which does gimp the old maps, they do not give completion credit or can be influenced but still can be run. They also can upgraded to current series with the 3 - 1 vendor recipe or turned to chisel with the hammer vendor recipe.

The issue isn't whether they should be migrated or not. Maps are 1st class items in PoE, customizable and tradeable. Ofc they should be migrated. The problem is creating a new series and resetting progression. This could easily be handled by having a migration path for each map and automatically keeping maps 'current' by integrating changes. This would both preserve the value of maps, prevent db bloat by senselessly forking a large number of items for a small number of changes, prevent pfile bloat (have you seen loading times lol) by automatically cleaning up instead of pushing this to players, and not impact designs freedom to make changes.

I'll have to grab some data on the amount of changes from one series to the next. I am pretty sure it is ridiculously small to the degree that a lot of players see their migrated maps entirely de-valued and they may not have had a map that changed (or tiny percentage). Forking to a new series is terrible design from a tech perspective and should not exist for those reasons but it is also a horrid progression reset and customer experience.

So the core problem isn't the map tab but failed design with content integration from short-term leagues to standard. They need to purge the bad attitudes around standard internally or this will be a failure cascade. The market is only going to gift them a monopoly for so long and they are leaving way too much money on the table. It isn't difficult to do this correctly and the game will be better (and they will make more money) as well. The tech debt isn't going to go away and as they continue doing a poor job with content integration the number of customers whose time to play does not fit into leagues is going to increase. I mean the content they are adding is all endgame (delve, synthesis, betrayal) and even that they botch by trying to force it early.

They are mud wimping (go look it up) in vain attempts to extend the grind and make the game even longer. My play time does not fit into a short-term league... I won't get enough of the content done and having to start over wastes too much time on the non-endgame portions that are not new and weren't ever that good to begin with (so I don't want to repeat them). I get if I wanted to Trade2Win I could advance much quicker but I don't see any challenge there and selling to be competitive has a lot to do with online time also.

I don't think GGG is doing a good job of backing up their designs up with data they have access to. At one point I am sure ignoring dumpster league was wise as it gave focus and helped prioritize but now their resources are not so limited and there is no excuse. Recent league systems have been tied to crafting and are non-trivial in terms of complexity. I absolutely would enjoy spending time with that stuff but if it has to be on GGG's 3mo cadence when they are actively mud wimping in attempts to slow the game down even more?

Those are all core systems and not some optional league gimmick. You can see how poorly those systems have been integrated to core precisely because GGG has bad habits and a pattern neglecting content integration to standard. They won't be able to pretend these problems don't exist like map series because it will be their precious league players calling them out (enjoy betrayal in synthesis with a lot of the workarounds nerfed lol).