2 Handed Melee is dps wise worse than Dual Wield

I have some numbers here that dont make sense to me balancing wise:

The dps wise strongest 2h axe base is the Vaal Axe with 126 dps, the dps wise strongest 1h axe base is the Royal Axe with 92.4 dps

The Dual Wield Bonus is 20% more meele phys damage and 10% more Attack Speed.

so its pretty much 92.4 * 1.2 * 1.1 for comparison, which results in 121.97~ dps, which is way too close to the best 2h Axe for giving another 14% free block, all the nice dual wield crit + 1h crit nodes and a priceless 10% faster gameplay for many melee builds because of the free 10% more attack speed. I would be an idiot if I would not go Dual Wield instead of 2h with pretty much every build except Earthquake maybe with those settis.

the best 1h Swords base even manages to vastly out dps 2h swords base with the dw bonusses:

2h: Vaal Greatsword - 109.2 dps
1h: Legion Sword - 90.6 dps * 1.2 * 1.1 = 119,6~ dps

Sure, 2h weapons have cool uniques like Disfavour, Starforge, Hiltless, Marohi Erqi and all that shit but other than that it has nothing to offer except the Slayer 2h bonusses maybe but that doesnt help a Jugger or Zerker or any other Ascendancy Class.

And with Dual Wield its easy to go crit because of the DW crit wheel and the extra 80% 1h crit wheel next to it (thanks for that btw, I love it), with 2h its a horror if you dont go Staves which are impossible to craft. So that makes dual wield even stronger than the numbers above show. What do the 2h Passives offer that Dual Wield doesnt have? NOTHING.

Like really, I can play so easily SSF with Dual wield, just craft a 280-300 pdps weapon with a 200 alts and 1 regal and I am fine even at dank shaped strands with DW Blade Flurry or DW Cleave. While self crafted 2h weapons arent worth shit eventhough they have the same mods (cruel/bloodthirsty inc phys + vagan flat phys) and already yellow maps are becoming a pain in the ass with them when I play stuff like 2h phys Cyclone or 2h Earthquake.

I think all white item 2h bases should be buffed by like 10%-20% more damage to reward the player for choosing 2h by allowing him to have the highest default dps on weapon bases, even after calculating the dual wield bonus. There is really no reward in choosing 2h right now other than the unique items and the Slayer ascendancy.

Anyone thinks the same?

They buffed 1h because it was shit in shield builds imho and this was desperately needed.

For SSF you are right, but for traders, 2h are much stronger.

You also need to take into account the passive tree. Not saying your wrong, just saying that it appears that you're cherry-picking and using the numbers you want out of context.

With the current change to bleed/poison -- I feel like 2h weps need a buff.

Before ailment bullcrap - it was a good choice

Now you want/need faster weapons to stack bleed/poison. And thats where 2H lose big time against 1h or dual.

DPS is not everything, main reason for 2H weapon usage is the bonus of 2nd 6L or ability to use Kaom's Heart without losing links on active skill. You also have longer weapon range with 2H weapons than on most 1H.

In regards to Normal and Rare Weaposn you are right. But look at the Uniques. 1H is totally fucked there in the Endgame. You have Doryanis Catalyst (that is a nice allrounder usable in basicly any 1H build that doesnt require a specific type of Weapon) and Dreamfeather (a highly specialised item that not any build can use). Claws are still bad, most daggers are to slow (same for the maces), and the best swords are locked away behind Zana mods (Varunastra) or Divination Card gamble (Rigwald Uniques). Soul Taker and Jack the Axe are outclassed by many selfcrafted 1H Axes. 2H is just the other way arround. Insanely good Uniques for the Endgame (Marohi, Doomsower, Kitavas Thirst, Starforge, Disfavour, Debions Dirge, Kongors, Brain Rattler and some more) but horribly to Craft (its really hard to craft a 2H that can outclass Disfavour or Starforge).

I dont think that the Base Weapons need a buff (remember that the buff would apply to the Uniques aswell) its more that the two handed nodes need some Love in the Skilltree.

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Shagsbeard a écrit :

You also need to take into account the passive tree. Not saying your wrong, just saying that it appears that you're cherry-picking and using the numbers you want out of context.

Yea I know that my calculations are not perfect in theory for some builds but at other builds like Cleave they are even worse because you get another 1.2 multiplicator if you use 2x the same weapon like dual scaeva.

And I actually want to play stuff like Cleave as 2h cause the free fortify + aoe bonus jewel.
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What you mean with passive tree? I said that Dual Wield has the better Stuff on Passive Tree because:

1. Dual Wield Crit Wheel + all the 1h crit
2. Ranger 1h + Dual Wield nodes left to the sword wheel which give decent dmg + attack speed but just for 1h+shield or dual wield (which I happen to visit a lot or at least think about going that way when playing with swords and stuff)

Dual Wield gets those 2 things exclusively, what bonusses are 2h getting exclusively on the passive tree? I really dont know anything that would be especially useful for most or even any build ...

Edit:

For the other posters: Yea you are all right of course, 2h has the better Uniques. I never doubted that.

But what if GGG would buff the white item 2h bases for lets say 15 % more pdps for everything, rounding up in doubt, while letting the values of all the 2h Uniques be the same. Would that be fair for you?

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peetrscz a écrit :

DPS is not everything, main reason for 2H weapon usage is the bonus of 2nd 6L or ability to use Kaom's Heart without losing links on active skill. You also have longer weapon range with 2H weapons than on most 1H.

Well the 6link utility is a strong argument but the weapon range does nothing for most builds and a player who really insists on maxing his weapon range goes thrusting swords.

Altogether I would say that the arguments of 6-linking a weapon and getting Kaoms heart and all the stuff that happens around level 90 is not a factor for balancing a playstayle that starts at level 2. Levelling from 2 to 90 with dual wield is most, if not all times times, faster, safer, cheaper and therefor better than with 2h at melee. And I think thats not fair because 2h has the most risk of death at this point so it should be the most rewarding of all melee playstyles.

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The_Human_Tornado a écrit :

it should be the most rewarding of all melee playstyles.

BS!

They should be SIMILAR. Nothing more, nothing less!
At the end it should just be a question of personal prefarences!

I love dual wilde ... but you want to nerf it. NO!!! NO DAMN WAY!!!! Even more as DW lay far behind in performance for such a long time!

There is absolut NO reason, one has "must" outclass the other!
Hell, even 1h+Shield should have an EQUAL performance!!

You want more block changse ?? PLAY STAFF !!

thing is thats white weapon dps.

Flaring on a 1h is what? 27-49? Its 38-68 on a 2h weapon.

Pain sunder vaal axe is 878 pdps, I think the top 1h axe is about 610 pdps? Its not quite as well rolled at pain sunder but if you do x 1.2 x 1.1 its still quite a bit short.

2h should have an offhand to spice them up a tad but I think they still do more base deeps. When you account for flat added damage from jewelery etc on a higher aps 1h I think the case is there for 2h to have an offhand with say life, res and maybe some flat damage/crit/acc statstickery.

You get a 6 link when you go two handed, seems very balanced to me