Lightning Coil / Shock application

Since I 6 linked a Lightning Coil this league I played a lot with it. With a decent health pool on several builds and occasions ( 4.5k to 5k+ life plus other mitigation options, e.g. Armor, MoM ) I was ( kind of ) one shot a few times.

Lightning Coil and chances of being shocked has been discussed a few times already. But with my recent suprising deaths ( I did take almost no damage most of the time and suddenly get almost one shot by trash mobs before I could even use my of Grounding flasks ) something came to my mind that has never been discussed related to Lightning Coil :

When are shocks applied ?

Most people assume that if one gets shocked due to the use of a Lightning Coil it will apply the shock after the hit has been taken.

I wonder if the actual mechanic rather is like this :

If a hit shocks you its effect ( 50% more damage taken ) is actually already applied to the hit that shocked you.

The reason I think this is the case is : When you crit on an enemy with cold / lightning damage it usually dies and shatters ( suggesting that the shock applies to the critting hit ) - so I would guess that status ailment effects are applied to the initial hit itself ( reason probably being that a crit should be impactful to give players a satisfying experience ).

If this is the case then Lightning Coil actually is quiet deceptive. It will make players feel like taking less damage ( which is the case for the vast majority of hits ). Yet the physical hits that ( almost ) kill a non Lightning Coil build will definatly kill a Lightning Coil player ( unless one has Shock immunity up at the right time ).

tl;dr
Lightning Coil will make one feel much safer while the rare heavier hits / crits actually will be dealing significantly more damage than without it potentially making a Lightning Coil user die from smaller hits than with a high armour chest.

According to Vipermagi at the end of this page:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/475284/page/89
The shock only applies after the damage of the hit is already calculated. Which kind of makes sense, since you need to know the damage to work out the duration.

Enemies count as being shocked when they die though, so I guess the dying happens after the shock is applied.

Some packs deal a ton of burst damage if you let them hit you a few times, especially Perandus packs in higher-tier maps. I've almost stopped playing this league but I still fool around with a character who has 10k hitpoints, over 1k hp regen and 11k armour and I've had quite a few near death experiences.

High-level perandus packs seem especially dangerous, they have to be kited or instantly melted (a bit difficult with the force dome-type packs) with most builds. I played a 8,5k ES cyclone coc assassin who dealed with them easily but he had stun immunity, very high damage and vaal pact with 4% leech.

In short, I don't think it's LC's fault, this chest wouldn't be so looked after if it wasn't good. It's just that you are overestimating your defenses with it. There's still stuff in the game which will kill you in a second if you're not careful.

I remember the first time I equipped it, thinking 'sweet, I can't get oneshot now!' with 4,5K hitpoints. I enter a Torture Chamber map, engage a pack of blue collossal skeletons from melee... BAM! oneshot. It increases your effective hitpoints against physical damage by ~25% - nothing more, nothing less. And 5k hitpoints aren't that much. Not to mention there are various damage sources in the game and physical is just one of them.

"

Vipermagi a écrit :

No one assumes this - we know this for certain.

Do you have any source ? The wiki pretends so but its reference dates back to old shock mechanisms and doesnt even say anything about when shock is being applied.

Quote from wiki : "The shock status is applied after the hit (not before), because the duration of the shock is based on damage dealt."
- This is no where mentioned in the referenced mechanics thread and I assume its just a logical fallacy ( no matter if correct or not ). I will counter that argument - freeze duration is based on damage dealt, yet enemies freeze / shatter with a single cold crit / hit which shows that at the very least freeze ( duration ) is calculated and applied on the initial hit. Doing so for all ailments would be logical ( as I already argued - the game is supposed to be impactful ).

A lot in the game is precalculated - e.g. afaik if a hit is a crit is determined at the start of an action not when it lands ( the reason we have to prepot ). So technically it would make sense for a shocking hit to deal increased damage.

"

AdFinitum a écrit :

- I will counter that argument - freeze duration is based on damage dealt, yet enemies shatter with a single cold crit / hit which shows that at the very least freeze is calculated and applied on the initial hit. Doing so for all ailments would be logical ( as I already argued - the game is supposed to be impactful ).

Nothing off there.
- deal damage
- apply additional effects
- if the damage depleted all life points kill the target
Freeze was applied before the target has been eliminated, so the corpse will shatter.

We do know this for sure because you aren't the first one thinking Shock is better than it really is, it was clarified on a few occasions but you'll have to dig around for it, I'm afraid.

^ This,

Anyway if you are scared of shock, use vessel of vintkar with lightning coil plus Fairgrave' tricorne.

Fairgrave OP.

"

Bars a écrit :

I remember the first time I equipped it, thinking 'sweet, I can't get oneshot now!' with 4,5K hitpoints. I enter a Torture Chamber map, engage a pack of blue collossal skeletons from melee... BAM! oneshot. It increases your effective hitpoints against physical damage by ~25% - nothing more, nothing less. And 5k hitpoints aren't that much. Not to mention there are various damage sources in the game and physical is just one of them.

ya even with a legacy lightning coil things like giant bonestalkers have hit me for over 5k life in 1 swing. You really need endurance charges up, damage reduction flasks up, enough evasion to be sure you cannot be hit twice in a row and enough speed on your flasks to be sure you can pot back in the space of 2 hits from the pack you just tried to facetank.

"

Snorkle_uk a écrit :

"

Bars a écrit :

I remember the first time I equipped it, thinking 'sweet, I can't get oneshot now!' with 4,5K hitpoints. I enter a Torture Chamber map, engage a pack of blue collossal skeletons from melee... BAM! oneshot. It increases your effective hitpoints against physical damage by ~25% - nothing more, nothing less. And 5k hitpoints aren't that much. Not to mention there are various damage sources in the game and physical is just one of them.

ya even with a legacy lightning coil things like giant bonestalkers have hit me for over 5k life in 1 swing. You really need endurance charges up, damage reduction flasks up, enough evasion to be sure you cannot be hit twice in a row and enough speed on your flasks to be sure you can pot back in the space of 2 hits from the pack you just tried to facetank.

It was a literal oneshot, flasking wasn't an option. He had some damage mods and I guess it was a crit. It was also before fortify was introduced so my flat phys mitigation was basically only the coil.


@Vipermagi: I think you're overestimating the guy's google proficiency :) Most people don't even know how to input search parameters.