Are critical strike chance passives broken

There is a minimum crit chance of 5% (w/o RT)
There is a maximum crit chance of 95% (w/o Diamond Flasks [not in game right now])

In order to reach 95% critical strike chance with 15% increase passives...

@7% base crit: 7*(1 + (0.15*80))
@6% base crit: 6*(1 + (0.15*94))
@5% base crit: 5*(1 + (0.15*114))

In the case of most melee weapons (5% base crit), you need 114 critical strike passives of 15%. If you take a critical strike chance passive that grants 30% to 60% increased chance, you can subtract a few required passives, but it's not significant, as you can obviously note.

There aren't enough passive skill points to max out critical strike chance. with any skill or attack with under 7% base crit chance. The odds become more managable at 8%+, but even with an 8% crit chance melee weapon (basically, a "perfect" dagger, claw or staff in terms of the implicit crit roll) and even when using critical weakness curse, you still need astronomical critical strike chance to reach just 50% crit chance, let alone 95%. And then, you've forgotten to get critical mutliplier to make all this crit chance worth your time. And even then, you've forgotten that off-screen reflect monsters will kill you.

You can pretty much imagine, that unless you're using ice spear or a wand, that each 15% critical strike passive can be equated to less than or just barely equal to a flat +1% crit chance on your character sheet.

With that in mind, would you spend 80 of your passive skill points to always crit? I wouldn't. Not with all the implicit issues with crit as it stands.

But, critical strikes are fun.
And, critical strikes give interesting synergies (King of the Hill? Elemental status effects? Certain uniques...?).
So, I would argue, that critical strike should be easier to stack, within reason, and at some cost and effort, but as it stands, there isn't much of an opportunity, nor is it realistically possible for most weapons.
And maybe obtaining 95% crit chance is a bit excessive, but, the reason for why I'm showing this is - that if you want just a 25% chance to crit, you may need as many as 29 critical strike passives. Isn't that extreme? For a measly base increase of 12.5% increased damage, on average? You can barely afford 29 critical strike passives, let alone 58.

Let's consider buffing critical strike chance...?

Mostly agree with what u wrote up there and like to add more perspective since crit chance hard to stack, stacking crit dmg multiplier is a lot harder than that and i dont find viable high crit builds any other than power siphon full ele dmg wander.

Unfortunaly GGG taking a path of making the game less varied about builds. All that mandatory survival nodes and broken couple mechanics(armor,chaos dmg melee) gives ppl to no choice to making their own unqiue builds.

You wouldn't WANT that much crit. When you have a good crit rate, what you want to stack is the crit dmg *multiplier*. Increasing your crit rate by 1%, no matter what your current crit rate, is the same dps increase. But increasing crit damage multipler by 1% is a *bigger* dps gain at a higher crit rate compared to lower.

And there are ways to boost it beyond the passives.

increased crit strikes goes up to like 105% as a support gem (more frmo quality?)
critical weakness curse I believe goes up to +10% (not a multipler) on cursed enemies for them to receive a crit

I'm doing a crit heavy build, have 33.6% on a spell with 408% damage multipler. its cool. maybe not the best build, but fun.

Increasing your crit rate by 1% isn't going to increase your DPS by the same amount every time. It depends on your crit multiplier. You need a balance of the two to some extent for it to be really viable.

As for more crit? Maybe. I've seen what happens already. Hell, I play a crit based build... I'd simply say that a low base crit chance is pretty harmful. There probably need to be some more crit nodes since they aren't exactly plentiful, but I'd rather see crit rates for things like bows to be a little higher.

"

Xikorut a écrit :

Increasing your crit rate by 1% isn't going to increase your DPS by the same amount every time. It depends on your crit multiplier. You need a balance of the two to some extent for it to be really viable.

No. That's false. Do the calculations. When crit multiplier and weapon/spell damage remain constant, changing 1% crit results in the same average dps gain regardless of starting position.

It's the multiplier that *leverages* against crit rate. That's why its more important to boost.

Maybe I forgot to mention that I wasn't talking about setting everything to a constant. My point is that you cannot simply say getting 1% more crit chance is worse than getting 1% more crit multi due to the way they interact; it depends on how much you have of each at the time. Later on, multi tends to win out almost completely, yet crit chance is far better in the beginning when you never actually crit.

With crit rate as the x-axis and dps as the y-axis, crit multiplier determines the slope of the line

ex. with a 100 damage, 1 attack per second weapon, default 200% multiplier (crits do double dmg)
0% crit gives 100 dps
100% crit gives 200 dps
I have just defined a line from (0,100) to (100,200) with a slope of 1.
Thus, a 1% change in crit results in a dps change of 1, regardless of starting point (this is my earlier remark)

It is the multiplier that determines the slope.
If you have a multiplier of 300%, the line changes from (0,100) to (100, 300) giving a slope of 2.

At 0% crit, they are the same. But at 100%, there is a notable difference in the dps gain from higher crit multiplier. That's what I'm talking about when I say the multiplier is leveraged against crit rate.

I can't say 1% crit is always equal to 1% multi, and I didn't say that.

You can of course define the line the other way - using the multiplier as the axis and showing how crit rate becomes more valuable as the multi increases. That's certainly true. The difference is that crit rate has two obvious cut-offs : below 0% and above 100% don't make any gameplay sense (unless there is a Fumble chance I'm not aware of for having negative crit), whereas the multiplier is not upper bound (apart from the soft limitation of simply how much you could possible acquire through passives and gear)

Attack speed just stretches the Y-axis (its an independent dps multiplier of its own) and so does weapon damage. Naturally, it gets far more complicated due to damage ranges and other skill interactions.

I think the issue isn't so much the passives (though they could get a little buff) but that daggers about double your crit chance. Due to this, buffing crit chance to the point where it becomes usable w/o daggers or power charge wands likely overpowers these two builds.

According to the mechanics thread, critical strike chance increases on weapons are calculated first. So by wielding a "Kris" type of dagger and with a 160% increase in crit chance from passives (only 6 points for shadows) we get:

7,1 base * 1,8 (kris implicit) * 2,6 = 33.28%!

For 6 passive points, that is actually really good.

It gets worse if you dual-wield them:

7,1 base * 2,6 * 2,6 = 48%. Thats almost 50% crit chance.

Unfortunately, with any other weapon, you cannot realistically exceed about 15%.

I think the implicit bonuses of daggers should be nefed. As it stands, they are by far the most powerfull implicit weapon modifier in game.

I would like to try a rit 2 hander build by the nodes are so far apart you have to sacrifice everything else for crit
they need to link them better so we wont be forces into a path

So...

All we are saying...

is give crits higher chance.