SRS gem choices - Fire Pen VS Added Fire

Has anyone tested Fire Pen for the 5th/6th link? Given the standard setup: SRS-Echo-Multi-Splash-Melee Phys, I am wondering if versus single target Fire Penenetration would be superior to Added Fire Damage.

Reason being that SRS by default converts 50% of its phys into fire, so Pen seems like a more ideal choice, especially versus high res bosses/exiles, than Added Fire.

Most SRS builds use some method (usually spell totem) to apply Elemental Equilibrium and curses to reduce resistances so the pen gem is not required.

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Zed_ a écrit :

Most SRS builds use some method (usually spell totem) to apply Elemental Equilibrium and curses to reduce resistances so the pen gem is not required.

Indeed, I used Arc totem myself for that purpose. But, Penetration gems can take resistances into the negative, so even after the -50 from EE and -35ish from Ele Weakness, Fire Pen would still hold usefulness. Given most bosses/exiles tend to be overcapped (not sure on this but I recall reading it before), then Pen would seem to be even better in this case since EE + a curse may not be enough to bring Fire resist down to 0.

I doubt anything in the game is overcapped before map mods though I couldn't prove this. And since less than 50% of SRS damage is fire (assuming Hatred) it's not a very efficient support gem to start with.

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Vipermagi a écrit :

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Peripherally a écrit :

Given most bosses/exiles tend to be overcapped (not sure on this but I recall reading it before)[..]

Lol. Nah. They're more likely to be under the cap, tmk. Maybe one thematic Resist capped out.
Rares with a Resist modifier or Aura can hit overcap levels of Resist.

So you're implying that a unique boss with the "Resists X elemental damage" attribute doesn't directly mean that its at 75%+ resistance to it? What level of resist does it have then, if not capped/overcapped?

I went by the most obvious assumption, that if it says "Resists X damage" it resists as much as allowed. Not without flaws, but without a comparison or means of denoting levels of resistance (like for example <0-25% = vulnerable, 50-65% = default, 65-75%+ resists = gets 'Resist' notation), how do we know?

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Zed_ a écrit :

I doubt anything in the game is overcapped before map mods though I couldn't prove this. And since less than 50% of SRS damage is fire (assuming Hatred) it's not a very efficient support gem to start with.

Trying to find out the first part, we'll see. As for the second, I intend to theorycraft a Avatar of Fire SRS build and see how much advantage can be made of the combination. Fire Pen and tons of easily accessed Fire nodes on tree make the prospect inviting, though EE won't be a possibility since no non-Fire damage possible.

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Peripherally a écrit :

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Zed_ a écrit :

I doubt anything in the game is overcapped before map mods though I couldn't prove this. And since less than 50% of SRS damage is fire (assuming Hatred) it's not a very efficient support gem to start with.

Trying to find out the first part, we'll see. As for the second, I intend to theorycraft a Avatar of Fire SRS build and see how much advantage can be made of the combination. Fire Pen and tons of easily accessed Fire nodes on tree make the prospect inviting, though EE won't be a possibility since no non-Fire damage possible.

Generally games that don't label enemies assume they don't resist or mitigate. This was true in Diablo 1 and Diablo II. Enemies that are "resistant" have capped resistance (generally 75%, or whatever players usually cap at).

If it is at all possible, I'd take both gems since they would synergize so well. If you're looking for single target damage, drop out splash and put both pen and added fire in.

But if choosing between the two, I'd go with added fire. You have methods to lower enemy resistance enough to where it'll do more damage in more cases than pen would add.

*the less resist enemy has the less effective penetration gem is
*fire damage is only part of SRS damage

adding these two assumptions together (+ the fact you use EE) results in penetration gem not being an optimal choice

Avatar of Fire doesn't work with minions similar to any passive that doesn't directly refer to minions.
The "resists x" attribute doesn't imply overcapped, or even capped resistances. White mobs can often go from resistant to vulnerable to an element from a single curse.