Poe 2 further away from the ''Broader Audience'' goal

The major problem is the Vate of the Vaal was written not by the intern but by the literal co founder of GGG Mr Rogers.


So the game director himself introduced this convoluted spreadsheet heavy system that he actually wanted to get rid off in POE2.

It seems they just lack critical manpower and workhours for this endeavour. Its not easy by any means to come up with some new league that the hardcore andys and also the gamer dads can enjoy. But The whole POE2 project feels like two entire different departments work on this game. And it goes back to warrior design vs ranger. Boomer design vs zoomers.

The whole crew feels overworked, incoherent in game design decisions.

GGG could barely keep up with POE1, now they have to maintain 2 games at the same time with even tighter schedule

Unless they hire 100 more people to work on this project i dont see anything changing in the near future.

"

LordKillius#0678 a écrit :

My son would be the target demo, but he's sick of everything being bugged when we play.

I guess all that will magically disappear when "early access" ends.

The Early Access tag is becoming a convenient excuse for poor technical execution. We are in 2026, and the industry has seen enough live-service launches to know that bugs don't magically disappear on 1.0 release. In fact, full launches usually bring even more stability issues due to the player surge.

When you lose a younger demographic—the target audience for the future of the franchise—because they are sick of the game being broken, you are failing at the most basic level. A younger player doesn't care about the vision or the hardcore legacy; they care if the game actually works when they press a button.

If GGG thinks they can coast on this buggy state until an arbitrary launch date, they are in for a rude awakening. First impressions are everything, and for a lot of people, the first impression of PoE 2 is that it is a clunky, unstable mess that doesn't respect the time of a father and son trying to play together. Quality of life isn't just about UI; it is about the game actually functioning.

"

Schranzfranz#4329 a écrit :

The major problem is the Vate of the Vaal was written not by the intern but by the literal co founder of GGG Mr Rogers.


So the game director himself introduced this convoluted spreadsheet heavy system that he actually wanted to get rid off in POE2.

It seems they just lack critical manpower and workhours for this endeavour. Its not easy by any means to come up with some new league that the hardcore andys and also the gamer dads can enjoy. But The whole POE2 project feels like two entire different departments work on this game. And it goes back to warrior design vs ranger. Boomer design vs zoomers.

The whole crew feels overworked, incoherent in game design decisions.

GGG could barely keep up with POE1, now they have to maintain 2 games at the same time with even tighter schedule

Unless they hire 100 more people to work on this project i dont see anything changing in the near future.

The irony of Jonathan Rogers personally designing the Fate of the Vaal—a system that doubles down on the exact "spreadsheet-heavy" complexity he promised to eliminate—is the ultimate red flag. It shows a complete disconnect between the marketing vision and the actual creative direction.

You are spot on about the incoherent design. It feels like the Warrior was designed for a slow, tactical souls-like, while the Ranger was built for a high-speed bullet hell. When you force these two conflicting philosophies into the same endgame, balance becomes impossible.

Managing two massive live-service games simultaneously with a tired, overworked crew is a recipe for burnout and mediocrity. You can see the exhaustion in every bugged patch and delayed feature. If they don't have the manpower to maintain a consistent vision, they will continue to release half-baked mechanics that alienate everyone.

PoE 2 is suffering from a leadership crisis where the directors are falling back into their old habits instead of pushing the genre forward. Hiring 100 people might help the workload, but it won't fix a leadership team that doesn't know which game they are actually making.

All really valid points here and I agree with majority of the feedback. We have some really passionate players providing good feedback and I don't know if this subforum even gets read by Devs or JR.

For now, I am putting down the game. I think they need another 2-3 years to polish this. Major QOL features missing, too many convulted systems, the game can feel very unrewarding where 3-4 maps might drop a div and you barely get any upgrades. No ground loot, crafting is a casino and major gamble. And it's always 1 or 2 metas every league. This league was the CoC Comet meta. Last league was deadeye and before that was lightning spear/bleed. I wish we would have more diversity like in 0.1 but seems like 75% of the patch is just nerfs and they don't want to bring the rest of the skills up to where it should be. I was so looking forward to playing Lich Xbow after seeing it as build of the week in 0.3 and they nerfed that going into 0.4. It was such a niche build I don't know why they nerf stuff like this.

Anyways, I think most casuals will just move on and this game will be for hardcore or mid-casual players.

Strongly Disagree with people condemning Fate of The Vaal.

Temple is the single best endgame POE2 and POE1 had in years. Years.

Yes it's a bs clusterfk crap from POE1, but the concept is absolutely in the right track.

As a mechanic, taking time to build a perfect layout for most reward, suitable to your build is just perfect gaming. And of course you NEED to think and plan.
That's exactly what makes gaming great.

What's bad about current state is the MINDLESSNESS of gameplay.

What you should be disagreeing is about why mindless autombomb is the most efficient gameplay, NOT planning the league mechanics.

POE2 original vision was engaging, tactical, methodological...which the part we are building the layout is. Running them is not.

So, what need to be adjusted is the monsters and what the room does mechanically when we are fighting it. A simply scaling "monster effectiveness" is absolute crap.

Basically,

Gameplay wise, POE2 endgame need to be LESS like POE1,
but the mechanical complexity of Temple should stand !

"

2836742981#3689 a écrit :

All really valid points here and I agree with majority of the feedback. We have some really passionate players providing good feedback and I don't know if this subforum even gets read by Devs or JR.

For now, I am putting down the game. I think they need another 2-3 years to polish this. Major QOL features missing, too many convulted systems, the game can feel very unrewarding where 3-4 maps might drop a div and you barely get any upgrades. No ground loot, crafting is a casino and major gamble. And it's always 1 or 2 metas every league. This league was the CoC Comet meta. Last league was deadeye and before that was lightning spear/bleed. I wish we would have more diversity like in 0.1 but seems like 75% of the patch is just nerfs and they don't want to bring the rest of the skills up to where it should be. I was so looking forward to playing Lich Xbow after seeing it as build of the week in 0.3 and they nerfed that going into 0.4. It was such a niche build I don't know why they nerf stuff like this.

Anyways, I think most casuals will just move on and this game will be for hardcore or mid-casual players.

The fact that GGG highlights a build as Build of the Week and then nerfs it into the ground the very next patch is peak developer tone-deafness. They are literally showcasing fun and then deleting it.

You touched on the most painful truth: the game has become unrewarding. When you spend hours grinding and the only thing you get is a gambling-based crafting system and zero upgrades, it stops being a game and starts being a bad investment of time.

Closing the door on 75% of build diversity every patch isn't balancing; it's a lack of confidence in their own combat systems. They are so afraid of players actually having fun and clearing content that they default to nerfs instead of bringing the underperforming skills up to a baseline.

If players like you—passionate, knowledgeable, and willing to provide detailed feedback—are putting the game down, then the "king of ARPGs" title is just an empty slogan. Moving on isn't being a "softie" or a "casual"; it's a logical response to a game that refuses to respect its audience.

See you in 2-3 years, maybe then they will have figured out that players are not spreadsheets.

"

Exilion99#5481 a écrit :

Strongly Disagree with people condemning Fate of The Vaal.

Temple is the single best endgame POE2 and POE1 had in years. Years.

Yes it's a bs clusterfk crap from POE1, but the concept is absolutely in the right track.

As a mechanic, taking time to build a perfect layout for most reward, suitable to your build is just perfect gaming. And of course you NEED to think and plan.
That's exactly what makes gaming great.

What's bad about current state is the MINDLESSNESS of gameplay.

What you should be disagreeing is about why mindless autombomb is the most efficient gameplay, NOT planning the league mechanics.

POE2 original vision was engaging, tactical, methodological...which the part we are building the layout is. Running them is not.

So, what need to be adjusted is the monsters and what the room does mechanically when we are fighting it. A simply scaling "monster effectiveness" is absolute crap.

Basically,

Gameplay wise, POE2 endgame need to be LESS like POE1,
but the mechanical complexity of Temple should stand !

There is a massive difference between strategic depth and tedious administration.

Planning a layout is fine, but when the UI is clunky and a single misclick or a bugged connection deletes hours of progress, that isn't tactical gameplay; it's just a waste of time. You're defending a flawed execution because you like the concept, but a good concept doesn't excuse a broken experience.

Also, you're missing the point about the "mindlessness" of the gameplay. The reason people default to mindless autobombers is precisely because the more engaging, tactical builds (like Melee) are punished by the very scaling you call "absolute crap." When the game forces you into a "one-shot or be one-shot" loop in the endgame, you can't have a tactical fight.

The Temple’s complexity should lead to interesting combat and choices, not just be a spreadsheet you fill out before you go back to the same broken combat loop. If the "running them" part is not engaging, then the planning part is just busywork. You can't separate the two and call the mechanic a success. A king of ARPGs needs to nail the execution, not just the "idea" of a strategy game.

"

Japonbu#0742 a écrit :

There is a massive difference between strategic depth and tedious administration.

Planning a layout is fine, but when the UI is clunky and a single misclick or a bugged connection deletes hours of progress, that isn't tactical gameplay; it's just a waste of time. You're defending a flawed execution because you like the concept, but a good concept doesn't excuse a broken experience.

Also, you're missing the point about the "mindlessness" of the gameplay. The reason people default to mindless autobombers is precisely because the more engaging, tactical builds (like Melee) are punished by the very scaling you call "absolute crap." When the game forces you into a "one-shot or be one-shot" loop in the endgame, you can't have a tactical fight.

The Temple’s complexity should lead to interesting combat and choices, not just be a spreadsheet you fill out before you go back to the same broken combat loop. If the "running them" part is not engaging, then the planning part is just busywork. You can't separate the two and call the mechanic a success. A king of ARPGs needs to nail the execution, not just the "idea" of a strategy game.

The temple building is fine as it is. It's not perfect, but it works, engaging, better than literally any other mechanic. Personally, I love TOTA more, but temple is without a doubt, S-tier concept.

The root of problem lies outside of temple, not the temple building itself.

The gameplay need to change to fit melee first, engaging, tactical, survivable, possible without autobomb or offscreen.

Like seriously, as mechanic, which mechanic is the most engaging, fulfilling and worth while.

Completing Kingsmarch was a chore and the rewards are severely delayed.

Blueprint is pretty enjoyable, but lack challenge in any way, and it's rare.

Delve is close, but more of choosing random map/reward rather build your own reward system.

Temple is the only one that can fill many holes, as you see fit.
You don't even have to snake or russian roullete. It'll be less effective, but those reward room are pretty nice too.

"

Japonbu#0742 a écrit :

"

2836742981#3689 a écrit :

All really valid points here and I agree with majority of the feedback. We have some really passionate players providing good feedback and I don't know if this subforum even gets read by Devs or JR.

For now, I am putting down the game. I think they need another 2-3 years to polish this. Major QOL features missing, too many convulted systems, the game can feel very unrewarding where 3-4 maps might drop a div and you barely get any upgrades. No ground loot, crafting is a casino and major gamble. And it's always 1 or 2 metas every league. This league was the CoC Comet meta. Last league was deadeye and before that was lightning spear/bleed. I wish we would have more diversity like in 0.1 but seems like 75% of the patch is just nerfs and they don't want to bring the rest of the skills up to where it should be. I was so looking forward to playing Lich Xbow after seeing it as build of the week in 0.3 and they nerfed that going into 0.4. It was such a niche build I don't know why they nerf stuff like this.

Anyways, I think most casuals will just move on and this game will be for hardcore or mid-casual players.

The fact that GGG highlights a build as Build of the Week and then nerfs it into the ground the very next patch is peak developer tone-deafness. They are literally showcasing fun and then deleting it.

You touched on the most painful truth: the game has become unrewarding. When you spend hours grinding and the only thing you get is a gambling-based crafting system and zero upgrades, it stops being a game and starts being a bad investment of time.

Closing the door on 75% of build diversity every patch isn't balancing; it's a lack of confidence in their own combat systems. They are so afraid of players actually having fun and clearing content that they default to nerfs instead of bringing the underperforming skills up to a baseline.

If players like you—passionate, knowledgeable, and willing to provide detailed feedback—are putting the game down, then the "king of ARPGs" title is just an empty slogan. Moving on isn't being a "softie" or a "casual"; it's a logical response to a game that refuses to respect its audience.

See you in 2-3 years, maybe then they will have figured out that players are not spreadsheets.

Most of my IRL friends have quit. It's such a huge time committment. Let's be real, you can't really play this game 30-50 minutes a day and expect any reasonable progress. I decided to leave the game on a high note because I think the temple has been one of the best mechanics although it's not explained at all in the game.

That's the other thing. I have to YouTube and watch people to figure out how the temple mechanics even work! It's not explained in the game at all how it works, what rooms connect to what, how your temple can be bricked, etc. GGG relies too heavily on 3rd party vendors and sites to fill in this information gap. Then they have mid league patches that change how things work and can brick your temple. With the backlash they got, they had to revert those changes but they still diluted the medallion pool of spymasters. Like comon, just wait until end of league to make changes. I have no trust in this company after they have done so many small shadow nerfs like this. The other one that comes to mind is when they decided to hide all rares from the mini-map and didn't show it in the notes and the announcements. Or when they nerfed the Choir of the Storm interaction in 0.2 and it wouldn't build energy for CoC anymore. In the middle of the league, that can brick your build.

Theres just too many changes made in the middle that can brick your build and you have to keep up to date with. For new players, nothing is explained in the game and for crafting or really any useful mechanic you have to alt-tab and read websites or watch YouTube videos to understand. The progression curve can be terrible in campaign on your first run if you don't find any good weapon or it can be very smooth depending. Not to mention, you have to repeat the campaign on every single ALT character. This game just has way too many frustrations with it. It's not a challenge, it's just tediousness and friction for the sake of friction. And now I see them heading down the path where they will overbloat the game with more useless items. Each league mechanic they add more crafting materials without really explaining things. 0.3 was Abyss and 0.4 is now incursion. Some of that stuff is not really useful like delirium has no use besides the 3-4 times you might need it for instilling amulets. Or essences besides 3-4 are all useless. Well I tried POE1 and I saw like 20 pages of stuff on the Ange version of POE1 and I just quit. It's overwhelming. If they bring that kind of philosophy to POE2, I shudder to think where the game will be in a few years. 95% of the uniques are useless outside of campaign of very specific niche builds.

The reason POE2 gets a pass from most players is because it has pretty graphics and the visuals are outstanding (which is another issue, visual clarity lol). And the combat animations are smooth and satisfying. But the rest of the systems are horrid. Once you get past all of the pretty visuals and environment, the spell breaks and you realize you could be doing other and better things with your time and actually have fun/enjoy rather than adding another stressor in your life. I am already stressed about real world economy and inflation, the last thing I want to worry about is inflation in POE2 which happens in every league lol.

"

Exilion99#5481 a écrit :

The temple building is fine as it is. It's not perfect, but it works, engaging, better than literally any other mechanic. Personally, I love TOTA more, but temple is without a doubt, S-tier concept.

The root of problem lies outside of temple, not the temple building itself.

The gameplay need to change to fit melee first, engaging, tactical, survivable, possible without autobomb or offscreen.

Like seriously, as mechanic, which mechanic is the most engaging, fulfilling and worth while.

Completing Kingsmarch was a chore and the rewards are severely delayed.

Blueprint is pretty enjoyable, but lack challenge in any way, and it's rare.

Delve is close, but more of choosing random map/reward rather build your own reward system.

Temple is the only one that can fill many holes, as you see fit.
You don't even have to snake or russian roullete. It'll be less effective, but those reward room are pretty nice too.

Being "better than other flawed mechanics" is a very low bar to set for a game that claims to be the king of the genre. You’re comparing the Temple to chores like Kingsmarch or mindless Delve nodes, but that doesn't fix the fact that the Temple’s current UI and stability are actively hostile to the player.

We agree that the combat needs to change to support melee and tactical play. But you cannot have a tactical game when the "strategy" phase (the building) is plagued by bugs and a lack of basic undo features. A true S-tier mechanic is one where the strategy is in the choices you make, not in fighting the interface to make sure your progress isn't deleted by a misclick.

If the "running the temple" part is broken because the combat loop is a one-shot mess, and the "building the temple" part is frustrating because of poor UI, then the mechanic is failing on both ends.

A great idea with poor execution is just a missed opportunity. GGG shouldn't get a pass for "good concepts" while the actual player experience is filled with unnecessary friction. If we keep settling for "at least the concept is okay," the devs will never have the incentive to fix the underlying technical mess.