GGG can't bring good combat to PoE2 without major changes - the "animation" issue.
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Damn, 3 pages for that, there we go, finally progress.
" I didn't write that towards you, but it applies the same : " " I'm not ignoring what you said, I've quoted you multiple times. My first quote highlighted a very specific stance of yours : " Wider quotes : " Reminder of my first and more replies to you : " See the difference between initial stance and your last post ? : " If you would have talked that way in OP, I wouldn't have replied ever. You built your whole OP on an "intended" something. You can have your opinion regarding what it was/is/will be, that doesn't make a reality like you presented it in the first post. If I say : "It is important to mention that the earth is flat" and build a whole argument on that, I dearly hope I will be called out. |
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OP is 100% correct in the assessment of why the slower more deliberate combat is currently not working. The monster animations are the main issue. Basic Monsters are too fast, too agressive and have a lot of range on their abilities. Bosses scale too high in damage, are clunky to avoid and the auto tracking is at odds with player movement.
The problem is then if GGG just slowed down the monsters and reduced their range and agressiveness, the game would be seen as too easy. I personally would like to see them try this for a league, just reduce these stats by 30% and see what happens, it is early access afterall and this is the time to test things. This would be a good opportunity to get player feedback on whether they PREFER that style of play even if it does make it easier. " Now as for Rob, your whole argument seems to have been that the OP has no "proof" that their opinion as actually real? Or am I missing something else? I am going to say this bluntly, it is speculation, you do not need proof to speculate. It is quite possible OP misunerstood GGG's intentions. Based on what you posted GGG never wanted to make the game slower but were forced too, to achieve their goal. On the quote from Mark, they made the game slower to achieve the goal they wanted of more more engaging and visceral combat. So on the other hand slowing the game is what they intended to do because they had no choice. Notice it is a past tense sentence that you quoted, not them saying "We ARE" but 'We had too" implying that it was already done. Mark Roberts: what do we actually want to bring down "that is what we had to do because of where the numbers have gotten to." "bringing both scales down doesn't mean everything's much slower" "it certainly allows us to then have more room to add more pinnacle bosses with more life over another ten years of content." Dernière édition par Cyriac_Darakus#1022, le 7 janv. 2026 à 11:56:38
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" My theory, as I've said, starts and ends with the streamer/community influence part. That, is a theory. And only that. I'm almost certain they had a role in it all, but it's not a proven fact. The contrasts in skill design, mob design and boss design... are not a theory. These are facts that anyone can see, and have experienced. You are bothered by the fact that I am cataloging the skills and designs that differ fundamentally from PoE1's designs... as PoE2's intended design direction? Is that correct? Let's create this fictious situation. You're a child and you have a bunch of lego pieces, okay? Okay good. You first build yourself a motorcycle, you play with it for a while but you get bored of it, cool! So now, you start thinking about a second creation! You decide to build something new because you felt your motorcycle was old, a bit obsolete perhaps, and you wanted to fix some issues it had, right? So you start building something that looks like a car. You tell your friends that you'll build something with the qualities that best describe a car too and why you're not continuing with your motorcycle! You also tell your friends about the limitations of your motorcycle and so on. You build it about halfway through and then for whatever reason (let's pretend your mom screamed at you to finish faster whatever you are doing and come to eat dinner, but that's just a theory.. we don't know that for sure... it's just highly likely).... you just smash half of your previous motorcycle into half of the new car you made and call it a day. You now have a half car-half motorcycle mix! And they clearly don't work well together. You now have your friends over and show them this new vehicle you told them about... but it doesn't quite do all those things you told them about right, neither does it fully resemble what you told them it will.... but they clearly see some of it resembles what you told them. What exactly should your friends believe about this... ? That you've always wanted to make this confusing vehicle? "Sigh" Dernière édition par IonSugeRau1#1069, le 7 janv. 2026 à 13:07:24
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" I don't understand your doubt or what you need me to clarify. you quote me saying this : "you misunderstood what the intended direction is/was/will be" And you then say this : "It is quite possible OP misunerstood GGG's intentions." Aren't we saying the same thing ? It looks like it to me. " Partly, but not exactly, that's more a consequence or confrontation of OP claims. OP claimed the existence of a PoE2 intended direction. He put that as an undeniable fact, same with streamers steering the boat. To which I replied " It's funny you talk about speculation, so did I :D It's fine to speculate, it's not to pretend it's a fact. That's my initial point. Unless I'm the one in the wrong, which I could be, but show me. Thus why I asked for proofs, and confronted that with real facts post after post. I don't need proofs for opinions. That's your right. I would prefer having some, but if you don't, I don't care, I'm just less prone to agree with you ^^ |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79kgVK3XGuk&t=3450s
Really good video I found from the past in which Jonathan himself acknowledges the nr.1 issue talked about in the community at the time about PoE2. One of the things that was pushed back against in this thread. Tried to pretend like it was my imagination. There you go, the dev himself said it. "And you're definitely right that it's the number one issue that people talk about poe2, like the fear in the poe1 community is that it's just going to be super slow paced" Listen closely to what he has to say about their intentions as well. Also consider the fact that he's clearly trying to sound impartial so that he doesn't give an answer that aggravates the community further because of that nr. one issue. He even says himself that he realizes his answer is a non-answer. There was also a video somewhere where he said that slower pace is a result of better combat, I'll link it if I find it. But he certainly said something like that too. Not the subject of this thread per say, but it is related. "But what I do think that is also bad, and this is another philosophical thing, is that I don't think it's really good when you.. um.. someone opens Path of Exile on Twitch they look at what the game looks like at the uhm the absolute 1% end of it and it just looks like utter.. just like... what is even going on on the screen, you know it's just like shit is everywhere, like I cannot, there's no visual clarity, I cannot tell what the hell is going on and the boss melts in like 2 seconds" Can everyone agree with me that this shows clear intention, at the very least? Can we also agree that the reality now is completely different from that intention? "Sigh" Dernière édition par IonSugeRau1#1069, le 7 janv. 2026 à 14:51:29
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" Indeed, that's a theory. So far so good. " Not sure contrasts between which 2 things you mean here, but I'll concede anyway. So far so good. " I'm not bothered by that, that's true. Some skills are indeed different. So far so good. " This is where you fall over. You could say : "what I would prefer in PoE", "what I want in PoE" "what I expect in poe" and you would have the right to say so. The intended design direction is the whole game, not specific ones you cherry pick. That's confirmation bias. Saying the game is intended to be slow is as wrong as saying the game is intended to be PoE1 because tailwind is in it. Nonsense. Yes parry is a slow design. Rhoa is a speed design. Both are in the game, throwing your "intended direction" out the window. They never specified what the intended direction is, nor knew themselves. They are just trying to make the best game they can. It's a work in progress for them, you have no way to know better. " I like this this approach, let's go ! " Good try overall, but not really : They built a car over a decade, with so many addons that appeared overtime. It started ugly with a simple monowheel in a garage, but ended up big. Now it's 2019. The parts are old, the first wheel (char models) is still there. It's too complicated to change it, the new shiny ones don't fit. They don't know where to put a new aero pack on the car, it's already looking like a hedgehog... When they try to add a new league...sorry I mean pack... on the car, half of the panels risk falling off. Each time they need to add more and more glue to stick. So they decide to make a new car again. From scratch. Now they have experience and money, they can use new parts from the get go, new challenge for them as well. Great, let's go ! They build a prototype, only half the car is there because it's early, there are only 2 wheels, whatever, the car is symetrical anyway, that's just a proto after all. And it's more clear to show the details on the door. The rest will come later. IonSugeRau1 sees that : Amazing ! 2 wheels, now they build a motorcycle ! That's the intended direction ! They keep building the car. Now they add the 4 wheels, 2nd wheel was Parry, 3rd wheel is Rhoa, 4th wheel is druid. Now they can put packs (breach, abyss, temple) on this new vehicle without risking everything exploding. It looks a bit weird, but it's fun rolling with it, it will need work and polish, but it's rolling. IonSugeRau1 : it was intended to be a moto, you lost the plot. Rob : You can roll it on 2 wheels if you want, but that won't make it a moto. That was fun :D As I said before, we've already seen that in the past, you seen it unravel already dude ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jJteEcRKjY You're looking at this demo, it's slow, combat 1 mob at a time, no loot shower. You take this, and call it "intended direction". We know the future, we know how it evolved Yep, that's PoE1. No "streamer outrage" can be invoked, and yet, it evolved. Because your "intended direction" doesn't exist. They increment, and player power grows overtime, because that's how live games work, by design. People come back for a decade because there are new better/shinier things to do/get. They would not come back otherwise. |
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" Yes, he said what we all agreed and seen already. People found the demo slow. That's a fact. But then again, you're reaching about any confirmation regarding your earlier claim. Right after your quote, Jonathan says (link) : I don't think it will feel that way, I think that when you play it you will have fun, ultimately that's all that I'm after Aka : I heard you, but you don't know what you're talking about, you'll be fine when you play. Definitely not the response of someone under pressure dude, come on :D " That's not a fact, that's your interpretation. Which is a bit wild considering my quote above is kinda a "no, you'll be fine when you play, trust me bro I only want you to have fun" Really good video indeed, we even have a mention regarding what I said with PoE1 exploding with updates being a reason for PoE2 as a new game : "oh we can't change this because it would you know break this or break that or whatever" " Yes, it shows clear intention TO NERF THE TOP 1%. (he says : "Twitch" + "the absolute 1% end of it") He's even a bit soft in this interview, I think I linked before a quote from him talking about nerfing top 5% (95th percentile in his words I recall). That's not an intention for the whole game. " If we call intention nerfing the 5% and better visibility, I agree, that's kind of a miss. Endgame is the same visual mess as PoE1, 100%. Is that an issue ? Maybe. I am fine with it, because I consider that a necessary price to pay. I prefer this visual vomit but a fun game where you feel your character getting really strong. That's my opinion. |
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There's no better, more obvious proof I can give you. Neither do I want to waste more time to prove you the obvious. You just refuse to accept it. Nothing I can do about that.
" No. What you said was that I'm imagining that they could ever be affected by this, except he mentioned it as the nr.1 issue. " "kind of a miss"... what more do I have to say... I'm not in the 1%, nor 5%... maybe in the 30-40% perhaps? Perhaps not even that? I don't think I took any of my characters past 94 or so... I achieved "screen like shit is everywhere, like I cannot, there's no visual clarity, I cannot tell what the hell is going on and the boss melts in like 2 seconds" on almost all of my characters. No build guides, pretty basic average items. If you can't even agree on this without trying to beat around the bush and the obvious intent of what he said there... beyond the "1%" and "5%" or whatever else which means absolutely nothing if the situation he describes as bad clearly goes beyond those numbers... what are we even talking about here? :| "Sigh"
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" I litteraly wrote I agree with you. The 5% is Jonathan's word, not mine. My words : "Endgame is the same visual mess as PoE1, 100%." Stop thinking because I put more details in my response means I'm aggressing you, you're tiring. Your understanding level is so poor that you manage to feel persecuted when I AGREE WITH YOU, ffs. |
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rob you should start by being less condescending and obnoxious, maybe discussion would go better. and btw there are words and there are the super slow horrible footage from before the .1 launch wich showed their intent, at least for campaign.
main point : ggg is 2 years late on their game and their game design skill went from mediocre to bad because of this. and because they need to pay the bills, they are back to old reflexes. bosses in maps are already ludicrously easy when they have the most interesting mechanics. You re scared of normal monsters wich have 0 interesting mechanics but the boss is super easy . So again , like in poe 1, the only interesting part in maps is completely wasted. Why, probably because you have to kill boss to complete map so if it s too hard, game will feel very bad. Abyss and the temples are already all about speed clearing and temple is also about move speed with giant map and small shit mobs in every dark corner that you have to kill. dont forget to kill one. And they couldnt find the time in 1 year to speed up the whisp. This is pathetic. like how hard is it to speed up the whisp ? i am sure they could find a coder to do it for free. And let s not talk about people farming 150 or more div an hour in temple right now after the nerf. Like, do they even have calculators in their offices ? when you listen to john interviews before 0.1, he was super hesitant. And now that they are under pressure , they do what they know works. at least that s my understanding. peace, doesnt really matter. they can start trying to have meaningful shit in 1.5 years when they re out of the rush. maybe by then wisp will be faster , who knows. i insist on wisp cause it makes the game looks pathetic. Dernière édition par SerialF#4835, le 7 janv. 2026 à 17:37:40
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