Patch Strategy is off

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Xzorn#7046 a écrit :

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Valsacar#0268 a écrit :

EA is an industry standard term, it is a funding model for games in pre-release states. It's not new, it's not made up, it's been a standard for a long time. As a developer, you should know that.

Then again, you just made up your own definition of beta, so...

There is nothing standard about the term EA. That's what's wrong with using it.

I didn't make up anything about Beta development phase. Go read.

Boy oh boy, maybe you should consider another profession. If you can't even read up on terms and use them correctly.

But then again, you're comparing a fully released, 12 yeard old game to a game with half the content missing.

I wonder how that indie-game of yours is going. My money is on: Not good, not good at all.

El. oh. él.

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quarki#9020 a écrit :

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crYme#6772 a écrit :

Release

One major patch

2-3 months game is dead, players drop

Idk … i m not a fan of this shedule

I would suggest focusing more on poe2 than poe1

That's how leagues work. So >20k people playing a dead game?

El. oh. él.

yea with 20k is a dead game compared to 200k reached.

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teobibu#1278 a écrit :

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quarki#9020 a écrit :

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crYme#6772 a écrit :

Release

One major patch

2-3 months game is dead, players drop

Idk … i m not a fan of this shedule

I would suggest focusing more on poe2 than poe1

That's how leagues work. So >20k people playing a dead game?

El. oh. él.

yea with 20k is a dead game compared to 200k reached.

So why are you playing a dead game? And why will there be more than 300k players when 0.4 hits? Why were there 300k+ people when 0.3 hit? Why where there 300k+ people when 0.2 hit?

El. oh. él.

the patch strategy could be off that's fine

what's not fine is leaving broken things in the game (i.e. tablet drops).

its like they intentionally busted endgame on poe2 so people would go play poe1

it feels super bad to play which is why I quit

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Xzorn#7046 a écrit :

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quarki#9020 a écrit :

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crYme#6772 a écrit :

Release

One major patch

2-3 months game is dead, players drop

Idk … i m not a fan of this shedule

I would suggest focusing more on poe2 than poe1

That's how leagues work. So >20k people playing a dead game?

El. oh. él.

Given 350k on launch. I'd say losing 90% of your players is pretty bad.

This isn't some flavor of the month steam game. It's an established franchise. This is assuming PoE2 launch wasn't just an elaborate Go Fund Me scheme. Which it likely was.

Warframe which started the same time consistently has 40-50k players on steam and that game is a dumpster fire of design and riddled with bugs. PoE2 was their chance to enjoy more than a 40-50k league start but they fumbled... bad.

They're using an old development cycle that no longer works in today's gaming. The worst thing you can do is allow players to forget about your game by spending too long away from it.

As a developer I've seen this first hand. Players like to see consistent updates. Period.

100% agree bro, glad still clear minds around

I rather like PoE2's patch strategy.

Comparing PoE to Warframe is not really all that straightforward. The two games have a very different core gameplay loop and revenue model. Warframe is an endless game-as-a-service where people never restart from scratch; the idea is to provide endless new gear to grind and endlessly drop in new pieces of content that might or might not need grinding for new gear.

PoE is based on leagues, where the explicit point is to encourage players to start again from scratch, which resets trade, lets players explore the new balance from level 1 on, and allows for league leaderboards for those who are thus inclined.

The idea is not to provide an endless game where there's always more and more to grind for. And that is, in my opinion, quite fine, and rather refreshing, infact.

Personally I like to play PoE1/2 for a month or so at a time, then take a break. Maybe come back next league, or maybe come back a few leagues later. The fact that I know that major content happens at a 4 month cadence is just plain convenient. It makes it easier to follow what's going on.

Major mid league balance updates are also pretty risky. Those have previously been done in PoE1. The end result has been a lot of very angry players, who felt that the build they were grinding for is now worth less. Even if that specific build didn't get nerfed, some other build might have become better, and some players heavily dislike that during the league.

Regarding the playercount trends - The 24h peak is 20 000 players, obviously the game isn't dead. Or are you saying that in 2017 when Grim Dawn got its first major expansion and peaked at 20k players, it was also a dead game already? C'mon. Also, the December launch, the launch of previous league, and the launch of this league - all had more concurrent players than PoE1 has ever had. Clearly, if one looks at the numbers and the design goals, PoE2 has been a success thus far.

If you are out of stuff to do in PoE2, just play something else. It's not a big deal and not all games need to cater for endless playing.

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quarki#9020 a écrit :

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Xzorn#7046 a écrit :

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Valsacar#0268 a écrit :

EA is an industry standard term, it is a funding model for games in pre-release states. It's not new, it's not made up, it's been a standard for a long time. As a developer, you should know that.

Then again, you just made up your own definition of beta, so...

There is nothing standard about the term EA. That's what's wrong with using it.

I didn't make up anything about Beta development phase. Go read.

Boy oh boy, maybe you should consider another profession. If you can't even read up on terms and use them correctly.

But then again, you're comparing a fully released, 12 yeard old game to a game with half the content missing.

I wonder how that indie-game of yours is going. My money is on: Not good, not good at all.

El. oh. él.

Hey, let's be easy on him, that google thing is still pretty new so we can't expect him to know about 20+ year old terms like early access.

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tzaeru#0912 a écrit :

I rather like PoE2's patch strategy.

Comparing PoE to Warframe is not really all that straightforward. The two games have a very different core gameplay loop and revenue model. Warframe is an endless game-as-a-service where people never restart from scratch; the idea is to provide endless new gear to grind and endlessly drop in new pieces of content that might or might not need grinding for new gear.

The comparison was in relation to frequency of patch and updates. Yes the gameplay loop influences player retention but this person over here only quoting peak player numbers while ignoring that often the average is 30% of that is just silly.

In the end I was just trying to get the point across that players tend to like frequent updates over huge lull periods and as the developer you risk losing them to other games. It's not hard.

I guess it is though since somehow these others don't know what beta development phase is.
There's games I've gotten EA for just to name snipe too. The term means nothing.

I used to come on here and argue with these fanboys but to no avail they will just keep yelling at you in a very nasty tone like you are a moron and have no IDEA you are in the FEEDBACK section of the forums ! You are wasting you time telling this company anything they dont care they are going to make this old game the way they want to even if it takes them another 3 years ! I played poe1 today it had a new league and in the first 30 min i had a need for 2 holes the same color on a want and i have 2 croms and you got it i got nothing and then quit . Fired up last epoch and remembered how a game is supposed to be as in fun not a freakin chore to play anyway this will prob not post and who cares wont be back for another year or so .

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Xzorn#7046 a écrit :

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tzaeru#0912 a écrit :

I rather like PoE2's patch strategy.

Comparing PoE to Warframe is not really all that straightforward. The two games have a very different core gameplay loop and revenue model. Warframe is an endless game-as-a-service where people never restart from scratch; the idea is to provide endless new gear to grind and endlessly drop in new pieces of content that might or might not need grinding for new gear.

The comparison was in relation to frequency of patch and updates. Yes the gameplay loop influences player retention but this person over here only quoting peak player numbers while ignoring that often the average is 30% of that is just silly.

In the end I was just trying to get the point across that players tend to like frequent updates over huge lull periods and as the developer you risk losing them to other games. It's not hard.

I guess it is though since somehow these others don't know what beta development phase is.
There's games I've gotten EA for just to name snipe too. The term means nothing.

Completely agree with everything you said. Dropping to less than 20k from 300k+ and shrugging it off with a "it's a seasonal game" is nuts

The idea of a cycle between poe1 and poe2 so that you're always playing one of them each 2 months also barely makes any sense. Considering poe2 peak had at least 2x the number of players than poe1 peak even though it's still beta, you can safely say at least half poe2 players don't give a shit about poe1 and aren't going to play it

This cycle between both games is apparently their main reason for doing this, but it's flawed from the start because it disregards the very simple fact that this half of playerbase came from other genres to play poe2, not poe in general

So you leave half of your playerbase in a limbo for two entire months, maybe three months with a game full of performance issues, unbalanced mess, bug hell. Of course player numbers are going to drop massively instead of averaging a decent amount until next league

This might get better once we have a real endgame, but when players feel like the game is abandoned while the devs work on something else that they don't care about...