Remove -10% from game

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KaosuRyoko#1633 a écrit :

Ah yes that's why the best game ever made is still being played 24/7. Lmao. I have no idea what you're talking about. Remember how amazing Elden Ring is? And how many people play it now? They've given talks about how they explicitly want peaks and valleys in the concurrent players. It's directly from them not some hyperbolic 25D chess logic.

Are you trying to dunk on Elden Ring? It's a non seasonal game that came out 3 years ago, and currently has more active steam players today than POE 1 and 2 combined. I'm not following what this point is.

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DarkDredd#2184 a écrit :

People want relax not flustrate.

There are games for that. Have you tried D3, D4 or Last Epoch? You can blast all day without thought or consequences in those.

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Celestriad#0304 a écrit :

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DarkDredd#2184 a écrit :

People want relax not flustrate.

There are games for that. Have you tried D3, D4 or Last Epoch? You can blast all day without thought or consequences in those.

Implying that removing XP penalty = no consequences is just a flat out lie. Try arguing on good faith

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CovidPatientZero#4772 a écrit :

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Celd#2630 a écrit :

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CovidPatientZero#4772 a écrit :

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Explain how anyone is promised to reach 100 when it would take several hundred hours to reach it without a penalty?

Not changing the topic to the speculative amount of hours needed to reach level 100, but if there was no exp penalty on death, all I would need would be to grind away, and eventually I'll reach level 100. No need to think about defenses or consequences, because the game would not require me to think about balanced builds. It'll replace every feeling of accomplishment for each painful level with one accomplishment: grinded the hours for level 100. That's a hollow feeling man, really hollow. :D

Not a subject Change, want you to substantiate your claim that's based purely on assumptions that are at odds with how most people play games. People don't like to die over and over, especially when map bonuses are lost. Most people aren't going to ignore defense if they keep dying, people don't like backtracking and wasting time. You are assuming that players will continuously bang their heads against the wall because an exp penalty doesn't exist to make them even more frustrated. Makes no sense

The people you mentioned don't know how to play the game and instead follow build guides. Not saying that's inherently bad, since the game is complicated, but it does not prepare players for frustrations. So my advice would be to enjoy the journey, pick up a new skill and try it out, ponder around gear craft and feel if there's improvement. Don't fall to the trap of just looking at numbers. Literal advices from GGG over the years. :D

And don't worry about the map bonuses, you can immediately put a new waystone into the machine and act as if nothing was truly lost. :)

PS: Yes, I'm assuming some players will bang their heads to the wall, for I'm one of them. You're assuming forcing the fight is not a valid strategy. I was forcing the Act 2 boss Jamanra over and over again. There was something wrong with my build against this guy, and I couldn't figure it out at the time. But because there was no exp penalty in campaign, I just kept going because I knew the next area gives me more upgrades. The same thing happened with the first Arbiter of Ash fight, where I wasn't going to back down because there was a cost associated with the fight. Otherwise it is a cool fight, but man, that one beam+orb wombo combo is the death of me almost every time.

as i stands i'm against the 10% XP lose, to keep it short heres my main reasons

1. It forces/encourages a mind numbing risk averse safe boring playstyle
2. It retroactively punishes a player by removing rewards for content already successfully completed. IE... i could take a week off log in die and the XP(reward) from my previous play sessions is wiped out/removed...
3. It is an online game with all the potential problems associated with it. lag, server problems etc etc. things beyond the players control that can lead to death.
that combined with #2 is totally unfair and disrespectful of players time

the only solution i see that could maybe appease both parties is simple.

make the XP penalty only be relevant to the map you are doing.
So if i load a map and die then i only lose the XP for that map

this keeps your "meaningful death" but atleast allows players to try and push if they so desire.
Your progress will still stall if you keep dying
If you do keep dying you will likely run safer/less risky content....exactly as you do now...

GGG know its a problem otherwise they would not have removed XP loss from the boss fights

Finally for the record the current XP penalty is why i stopped playing and i will never spend any money on this game while my time is disrespected like it is; hell i may not ever return at all unless i see some sort of change.

True it's time to remove 10% and make it 25% :)

sure why not... i mean while we are at it lets have a real "challenge" and make it so XP loss can DELEVEL you.

no more safe spot at the start of a level for the supporters of the current system
that would make death really "meaningful" eh?

I totally agree—every game has its own target audience and that’s what makes them unique. Exp loss in PoE isn’t a big deal for me either, it’s just part of the challenge.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 a écrit :

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SpankyKong#9805 a écrit :

Not everyone has the luxury of being able to have extended game sessions every single day. For some, one death completely invalidates several days worth of time spent. But your sensibility for time investment, commitment, and difficulty - seems to me to be already catered to in hardcore mode. I don't advocate that this option be taken away.

We do disagree, but it feels like the root disagreement is whether there should even be an option for player with different sensibilities.

Hardcore is fun sometimes, I can see the appeal. But I do prefer the balance of the softcore punishments for death myself.

Your conclusion here sounds accurate.

I do not believe every game needs to, or even could if it wanted to, cater to every possible type of gamer. I have no fundamental issue with PoE being a game primarily for grinders that can no life the game any more than I have an issue with Elden Ring being a difficult game designed for masochists or Stardew Valley being a relaxed game for more casual gamers. There are plenty of different games in different categories that cater to different types of gamers. PoE is the niche I've found that I love, so I don't want it to change away from that. Too much attempting to cater to absolutely everyone is the big driver of enshittification.

If part of your argument against exp loss is that you have limited play time, would you also argue that Mirrors and other stretch goals that average play time players are never going to see shouldn't exist?

Overall, exp loss is a very small part of the things I love about PoE, and while I enjoy the debate against it, I wouldn't honestly bat an eye if they removed it tomorrow either.

I get your point—different games have their own charm, like how casual players enjoy Stardew Valley APK. Mods also add so much variety, and the Stardew Valley mod APK really shows how flexible the game can be.

Add the ability to De-Level upon hitting 0% experience. I wanna see tears.