Viper Napuatzi highlights something important (my first actual critique)

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NotPivot#9831 a écrit :

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TheRedVex#3529 a écrit :

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NotPivot#9831 a écrit :

Bumped, because I want to hear from the community here.

You want to hear the community ? ok let's go.

I only play HCSSF and Viper is faaaaaaaaaaar from being the most dangerous thing. I'm 1000x more afraid of fighting the monkey (silverfist or whatever, can't remember the name right now) but since i started in 0.1 last december, with all the chars i made and ripped, i have exactly 0 (zero) death from viper.

maybe learn the patterns, her attacks, maybe use a poison charm also ?

i have beat her on many characters even with 0% chaos res and a 1000 - 1200 hp/es pool.

what i don't understand is when you said she's even harder in Cruel difficulty, because to me, it's the exact opposite, Cruel difficulty is a walking-simulator to mapping, because your character start to have some stuff (im still HCSFF talking obviously), some ascendant points, your ehp pool is higher etc....

i had rips on normal difficulty and mapping but not a single one on cruel difficulty.

you're probably a SOFTCORE TRADE player i don't understand what's wrong with yall, seriously, your chars are just immortal, maybe try her until you learn and kill her ??????????

[Removed by Support]

It doesnt

When i'm bad at something in life, i try to train, learn, adapt, understand. You should try. There's undred thousands people that killed viper on normal and cruel difficulty, you can do it too. Regards

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AxiomOfAnarchy#7408 a écrit :

It's not unique to this boss, but this boss is definitely one of the worst offenders, for continuously chaining actively-avoid-or-die mechanics, giving you no time for DPS. This is often why boss fights are so long and difficult, and it's not the good kind of difficulty, it's just tedious and exhausting and makes you want to quit the game whenever you run into it.

Yeah.

There is a 3 fold balance to strike in any boss design, with Defending (evading)/Damaging/Counterplay

Viper is almost exclusively, or at least mostly, defending and evading a constant barrage of attacks, which due to the damage type, end up becoming potion spamming - not sure how anyone can defend this.



[Removed by Support]

If you look through my post history I have defended this game incessantly, been called a fanboy, argued with people about difficulty and what not, and invested a great deal of time and money into it, I'm not just crying about something I've just stumbled across on Steam and decided to try out for a weekend.

You can tell me to "get good" all you want, but the reason that doesn't work in this case is because I already am good.

I beat the boss, and have done so many, many times. This isn't me crying because I'm stuck somewhere, this is an honest critique of a boss that has nothing to do with my skill level, but will in fact cause people to quit, as will this general design philosophy for bosses and rares.


Shroud walking into extra chaos damage explosion rares are quite similar, especially the couple I've run into with proximal tangibility and reviving minions - all piled up and then buffed with an Azmeri wisp - this type of thing is pretty literally indefensible unless you are just looking to be contrarian and in that make yourself feel good about yourself by calling someone else trash at a video game (even if the person your insulting has beaten all content at least a dozen times).

[Removed by Support]

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TheRedVex#3529 a écrit :

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NotPivot#9831 a écrit :

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TheRedVex#3529 a écrit :

You want to hear the community ? ok let's go.

I only play HCSSF and Viper is faaaaaaaaaaar from being the most dangerous thing. I'm 1000x more afraid of fighting the monkey (silverfist or whatever, can't remember the name right now) but since i started in 0.1 last december, with all the chars i made and ripped, i have exactly 0 (zero) death from viper.

maybe learn the patterns, her attacks, maybe use a poison charm also ?

i have beat her on many characters even with 0% chaos res and a 1000 - 1200 hp/es pool.

what i don't understand is when you said she's even harder in Cruel difficulty, because to me, it's the exact opposite, Cruel difficulty is a walking-simulator to mapping, because your character start to have some stuff (im still HCSFF talking obviously), some ascendant points, your ehp pool is higher etc....

i had rips on normal difficulty and mapping but not a single one on cruel difficulty.

you're probably a SOFTCORE TRADE player i don't understand what's wrong with yall, seriously, your chars are just immortal, maybe try her until you learn and kill her ??????????

I hope that post made you feel good about yourself.

And that is all the response it merits.

It doesnt

When i'm bad at something in life, i try to train, learn, adapt, understand. You should try. There's undred thousands people that killed viper on normal and cruel difficulty, you can do it too. Regards

I have, and did this time too. I've done it like... More than a dozen times. This isn't about me, it's about boss design. Hard to insult intangibles though, and if you can't insult people, what on earth would you use the Internet for, am I right?

Do you even read before you respond?

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NotPivot#9831 a écrit :

You cannot bait attacks.

You cannot predict the next move set.

That's a good thing, not every boss should be a highly obvious and predictable scripted fight, sometimes you just need to pay attention and react

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Ash#9143 a écrit :

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NotPivot#9831 a écrit :

You cannot bait attacks.

You cannot predict the next move set.

That's a good thing, not every boss should be a highly obvious and predictable scripted fight, sometimes you just need to pay attention and react

+1

thank you, Sir.

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Ash#9143 a écrit :

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NotPivot#9831 a écrit :

You cannot bait attacks.

You cannot predict the next move set.

That's a good thing, not every boss should be a highly obvious and predictable scripted fight, sometimes you just need to pay attention and react

Highly predictable, and scripted are not the same as being able to read some of the attacks, and bait others.

I'm not arguing for scripted fights, or telegraphing every move.

I'm at a descriptive loss here, because it's becoming more and more obvious to me that this is like talking to a brick wall.

The Internet operates via hyperbole, I've known that for years. I was unaware how many of it's patrons have now been brainwashed to act the same - but I guess the writing has been on the wall for years.

Every answer seems hyperbolic anymore -

I say some attacks should be baitable - the Internet responds "You just want obvious and predictable fights".

I say you should be able to at least catch a tell or read the boss and not get slammed by the most difficult attacks incessantly through out the fight, to the point where the only thing that matters is potion spamming away the chaos tick and hoping for good RNG - The Internet responds, "Get good crybaby... Roflcopter"



Idk, RNG based boss fights are always lazy, farted out dumpster fires from design and development standpoint. They scream "we didn't want to work to hard here, so here's the same stuff again, with some rng so simulate some variety and difficulty".

I would almost rather GGG just said, "Yeah guys, we got lazy here, but we will work more on it later". I could deal with that.

I used to hate this boss as well, but last time she didn't use the purple circles even once and the spear stabs juts once during the entire fight, I was even thinking it was somehow bugged or wtf. So I guess this boss abilities are just ultra random and sometimes you just have a really bad luck. Definitely a bad design and tough luck for HC players, but no problem for softcore.

With this boss, the problem is always chaos res which is hard to get (but I don't usually trade much during the campaign or I play SSF). Also, hard for ES builds ofc. I think every build has its arch nemesis, it will always be like this. From your experience as you describe it I think you also lack damage, I think this game on softcore is juts damage as a main defense during the campaign. The problem in general is that a lot of fun builds juts lack damage, but that I hope is an early access problem. It's always hard for me to find a build that I both like and that deals damage, but once you find one and you play trade league, the campaign is a breeze.

The worst thing about this boss is it going invincible during its special attack. You just sit there dodging the spears and waiting for it to be over with no ability to attack the boss. It's stupid as fuck

Viper Napuatzi is a BS fight.

Was terrible in 0.1. Repeatedly, repeatedly died until I figured out GGG created a combat scenario where doing anything other the dodge rolling was instant death. Subsequent characters, either got through deathless, or died once due to somehow messing up the dodge roll timing. Still a stupid fight though.

Enter 0.2. Repeatedly died several times, going wtf, this is the dodge roll phase, just to discover the fight has been changed, and not for the better. Repeatedly died some more trying to figure out the new required dodge technique. Finally, after getting extremely pissed at the idiocy of the fight, I managed to just barely get through that phase. And let me tell you, after getting through that fight/phase by skin of my teeth, probably by pure luck and not repeatable by me yet, I never want to do Viper Napuatzi again. The fight is pure BS.

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Khann_cz#3760 a écrit :

I used to hate this boss as well, but last time she didn't use the purple circles even once and the spear stabs juts once during the entire fight, I was even thinking it was somehow bugged or wtf. So I guess this boss abilities are just ultra random and sometimes you just have a really bad luck. Definitely a bad design and tough luck for HC players, but no problem for softcore.

With this boss, the problem is always chaos res which is hard to get (but I don't usually trade much during the campaign or I play SSF). Also, hard for ES builds ofc. I think every build has its arch nemesis, it will always be like this. From your experience as you describe it I think you also lack damage, I think this game on softcore is juts damage as a main defense during the campaign. The problem in general is that a lot of fun builds juts lack damage, but that I hope is an early access problem. It's always hard for me to find a build that I both like and that deals damage, but once you find one and you play trade league, the campaign is a breeze.

Yeah, I have made more than handful of characters and always gravitate towards elemental builds of some sort. This boss does have ele resist that is through the roof, but armor also seems to actually be effective for monsters and bosses, while not at all for players. I just threw some phys damage supports on my spear throw and used rake for tick, beat her a couple tries later and just went back to what j was doing, which clears maps just fine.

My damage was lower than maybe it COULD have been, but I don't buy anything, I just use trade league to sell what I craft and drop. For me, trade league is one way until I get bored and decide to finally make whatever build is meta, and by then I have more currency than I can spend anyway, because I use it to craft with.

Brass tacks is really just this -

This boss is not very well put together, and almost seems like giant middle finger from the devs (I wouldn't blame them honestly).

I risk just restating the same stuff I have already said ad nauseum so if you're curious just scroll up.