Why are third-party loot filters still required?

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SgtMumbles#7941 a écrit :

I've only ever written my own for PoE, and while I may not get as detailed on conditions and modifications as some of the uploaded filters, it took me maybe 30 minutes to get a baseline 'works for anything' written (even shorter for PoE2, maybe 5 minutes?), around 5-10 minutes to update it for specific gear I want in a build, and 2 minutes at most to put in any new league stuff, including the copy-pasting between the base filter and a build's filter.

The only reason it's time consuming at all for me is from cross-referencing the wiki for spelling and conditions/actions.

Thank you for your feedback.

I was hoping to get a baseline before I gave my own experiences.

The first year I played PoE1 I used the default loot filter and modified it via Notepad++. I did this because I never have liked using third-party tools. Maybe I am a bit slow when it comes to that, I have nothing to compare it too, but it took me at least 10 hours over the course of several days to understand and digest what was going on in the text file. Learning what colors, sounds, how to make it bigger, how to #hide and show and just the correct syntax.

Then, every league big changes needed to be made depending on what you are hunting for. Little mistakes cause a kickback, it was a time consuming process. Turn off these potions drops, this currency here, remove these 50 base-types, but keep these three, etc.

As new currencies, items, fragments were added over time I made the switch. I went to the third-party filters, and yes I am glad they are here. I did not enjoy spending many hours each league fiddling with my filter, constantly tweaking it.

Most players would not do that to create a manageable experience while end-game mapping. That is why instead we use third-party.

The point is neither alternative is good. Creating your own, at least in my experience was not a 30 minute whirl, there was a time-consuming learning curve staring at walls of text and experimenting. It was something I had to do each league, and tailor every time I got to end-game or switched builds.

I can't think of any game that is as heavily reliant on a third-party as PoE. What percentage of players are using this? It may very well be most players.

The examples I gave of LE and Grim Dawn filters are just that, examples. PoE could surely make an integrated filter that is better than both games, just as they have made a better game in the first place.

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bㄴaㄷkㅁut#3983 a écrit :

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SgtMumbles#7941 a écrit :

I've only ever written my own for PoE, and while I may not get as detailed on conditions and modifications as some of the uploaded filters, it took me maybe 30 minutes to get a baseline 'works for anything' written (even shorter for PoE2, maybe 5 minutes?), around 5-10 minutes to update it for specific gear I want in a build, and 2 minutes at most to put in any new league stuff, including the copy-pasting between the base filter and a build's filter.

The only reason it's time consuming at all for me is from cross-referencing the wiki for spelling and conditions/actions.

Thank you for your feedback.

I was hoping to get a baseline before I gave my own experiences.

The first year I played PoE1 I used the default loot filter and modified it via Notepad++. I did this because I never have liked using third-party tools. Maybe I am a bit slow when it comes to that, I have nothing to compare it too, but it took me at least 10 hours over the course of several days to understand and digest what was going on in the text file. Learning what colors, sounds, how to make it bigger, how to #hide and show and just the correct syntax.

Then, every league big changes needed to be made depending on what you are hunting for. Little mistakes cause a kickback, it was a time consuming process. Turn off these potions drops, this currency here, remove these 50 base-types, but keep these three, etc.

As new currencies, items, fragments were added over time I made the switch. I went to the third-party filters, and yes I am glad they are here. I did not enjoy spending many hours each league fiddling with my filter, constantly tweaking it.

Most players would not do that to create a manageable experience while end-game mapping. That is why instead we use third-party.

The point is neither alternative is good. Creating your own, at least in my experience was not a 30 minute whirl, there was a time-consuming learning curve staring at walls of text and experimenting. It was something I had to do each league, and tailor every time I got to end-game or switched builds.

I can't think of any game that is as heavily reliant on a third-party as PoE. What percentage of players are using this? It may very well be most players.

The examples I gave of LE and Grim Dawn filters are just that, examples. PoE could surely make an integrated filter that is better than both games, just as they have made a better game in the first place.

People will always give you excuses for why there isn't (and no shade against Filterblade, Neversink is a treasure to the players, as well as everyone else who has put together their own filters and shared them in the community)

Its pretty clear at this point that there will never be one implemented by GGG unfortunately, but I do wish that they would at least point the way for the 300k odd people new to the franchise to (at least) some sort of concise guide to using/creating filters.

There are other quick guides that I would say should be thrown up in game for completely new players (like trading with a link to the official page, given the game is balanced around this being accessible) but that's outside the scope of your post

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kanoxuk#4589 a écrit :

People will always give you excuses for why...

Listen there's lots of room for debate on the decision, but nobody needs to invest any time coming up with "excuses" for why this is the model and why it will continue to be as long as the game exists: it’s free labor.

Once GGG added the ability to create custom loot filters and individuals and teams came together to create and share filters with the community, the die was cast. Game studios are for-profit entities with finite resources and there is not one in existence, no matter how virtuous or “player-focused,” that would elect to assign their limited and extremely costly development resources into creating a feature that is already being created elsewhere at no cost to them (and frankly with greater quality and consistency than they would probably achieve if they tried to do it themselves at this point).

Again, not defending the model but there’s absolutely no reason to debate the reason why it is the model. Free labor is the golden egg of capitalism. Once someone has it in their cluthches, they’re not going to give it up unless someone forces them to.

I would say that if you were able to force them to take this effort in-house, you need to understand that any resources that they invest in creating and maintaining the in-game filter would be resources not being used elsewhere on other features or content and is that really a sacrifice you want to make in these circumstances? We have a working solution so personally I don’t see why we would want to shove this back on GGG just because it seems like the right thing to do.

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bㄴaㄷkㅁut#3983 a écrit :

Then, every league big changes needed to be made depending on what you are hunting for. Little mistakes cause a kickback, it was a time consuming process. Turn off these potions drops, this currency here, remove these 50 base-types, but keep these three, etc.

Bit of personal advice: if you ever decide to take on the task of maintaining a personal filter for yourself, you really don’t’ want to create and maintaing the .filter file directly by hand (for the reasons you describe).

Instead, create a utility that can output the .filter file based on a more user-friendly, human-readable configuration file of some sort. Write up a quick README that explains how filter files work and upload that and a sample .filter file to a ChatGPT project space and ask it to help you create a Python script that’s capable of generating .filter files.

It will take a bit of doing, but once you have a working utility you will be able to make updates and tweaks in a matter of seconds. You could have the script generate the .filter file directly into the active directory so you could even make changes while you play, regenerate & reload to see the changes in real time.

Why to use filters if we never have more than 10 or so items in screen?

it's GGG's job to drop stuff, it's our job to decide if it's good or not. it's not their job to make a unique, currency, or item base type meta or not

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Kerchunk#7797 a écrit :

Once GGG added the ability to create custom loot filters and individuals and teams came together to create and share filters with the community, the die was cast.

Bit of personal advice: if you ever decide to take on the task of maintaining a personal filter for yourself, you really don’t’ want to create and maintaing the .filter file directly by hand (for the reasons you describe).

Instead, create a utility that can output the .filter file based on a more user-friendly, human-readable configuration file of some sort. Write up a quick README that explains how filter files work and upload that and a sample .filter file to a ChatGPT project space and ask it to help you create a Python script that’s capable of generating .filter files.

It will take a bit of doing, but once you have a working utility you will be able to make updates and tweaks in a matter of seconds. You could have the script generate the .filter file directly into the active directory so you could even make changes while you play, regenerate & reload to see the changes in real time.

Thank you for this info, and I hope someone else can find some good use for it. I won't be doing another filter, and yes as you mentioned I was doing it by hand. Wish I had this information back then!

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Kerchunk#7797 a écrit :

Game studios are for-profit entities with finite resources and there is not one in existence, no matter how virtuous or “player-focused,” that would elect to assign their limited and extremely costly development resources into creating a feature that is already being created elsewhere at no cost to them (and frankly with greater quality and consistency than they would probably achieve if they tried to do it themselves at this point).

When I started playing this game in Prophecy league the main way to trade was through a third party website 'poe.trade'. Yes, some people still used the forum way of listing items but they were few and far between and really at that point it was antiquated.

A year or two later the official trade site launched but I continued to use the poe.trade site because official wasn't fleshed out enough and there were several types of searches you couldn't do efficiently; the functionality just wasn't there yet. Also, it was laggy as all hell for a long time!

Eventually the official site became much better and they have continued to add even more convenience such as the auto-message etc.

Aside from the ads, which filterblade also has, it was a useful third-party site that GGG did choose to replace.

Actually you dont need a filter because in this arpg(!!!) drops no meaningful stuff. If i let me show only yellows, then i pick every ten hours one item up, what is not for my class/build. Pretty fun!

But to your topic a ingame filter like EHG have with LE should just standard in every arpg. Same with the guild system. Thats the cool stuff where everybody can/should learn from.

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Saruman100#7067 a écrit :

I would like an in-game interface, something like a wizard which you can checkmark what you want to filter and have clever logic checks. For example filter item bases which are armor only or evasion only or filter item bases by type, etc. Something you can make yourself without having to code in a notepad

++ same here. Plus, it`s stupid to go outside the game to create filters.

I`m wondering if GGG has plans to created this feature in-game.

It's not thrid-party. You can write your own ascii notepad file ;)

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Urza_Mechwalker#7393 a écrit :

Why to use filters if we never have more than 10 or so items in screen?

Drop a divine on the ground next to a transmutation orb and you will see they look the same aside from the wording (without filter/default). The sound they make is a little different, but it isn't loud and you probably won't hear it.

At the very least, it's a good way to ensure you don't overlook good drops even if they are more limited than PoE1.