I'm so sick and tired of friction as a balancing mechanic

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kattfläsk#2846 a écrit :

The punishment of XP is right now one of the things that makes me most angry.

If you loose some stuff in the game - fine. But loose TIME i have spent? That is a bit to much to ask.

Yes, you already lose the map, buffs and ground items, and with current end-game that is more than enough.

In terms of friction imho one of the worst systems right now is skill gems. Just the fact that they keep dropping, you quickly fill up your gem stash tab and have no use for those skill/spirit gem drops. Yet you still have to rummage through them.

Same for Waystones. Running a T15 map and having random low tier maps dropping is completely pointless. You might upgrade a few T13 to T15, but most of the low tier maps are just taking space in a map stash tab.

I think skill gems shouldn't drop, they should just unlock as you level.

I think Waystones should always drop same tier, 1 lower, or 1 higher, based on Atlas tree setup. Buy low level Waystones from NPC if you run out of lower level waystones.

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BattLeSCVs#6386 a écrit :

Yeah i really don't like their ideas on 'friction'. You can call it whatever you want, it doesn't feel good. Diablo 2 wasn't a success because of 'friction', it was a success in spite of 'friction'.

Diablo 2 LoD honestly feels like it has *less* friction than PoE2.

D2 was a simpler game, so the mechanics of ID scroll, spamming potions, etc did not hit the same way.

Identifying a unique is only exciting if several uniques can drop with the same item base. I don't think that's the case in poe?

In D2 there was no friction with skill gems, you just gain skill points and spend them.

In D2 there was no friction with "reforging": you just put stuff in the cube, all kind of formulas.

In D2 there was much less friction overall managing inventory because it didnt have the insane amount of special currencies poe uses like omens and expeditions - all of which have no special UX.

In D2 there was no friction managing waystones and tablets and what have you, because the campaign was the farmable content.

Besides skill gems and waystones probably the worst friction in the game is just how you have to manage all the currencies.

For example as a relatively casual player that got Warbringer to level 93, but has yet to specialize in Breaches, Expeditions etc, I am ACTIVELY discouraged from learning and enjoying Expeditions and Breaches and Rituals, because managing the currencies is such a PITA.

Expeditions crafting seems quite useful, but whenever I want to try I have to find a stash tab where I store the Broken Circle and whatnot, I have to ctrl click about 6 of them, then I go talk to the NPCs.

Already here you should be able to engage the expedition NPCs at any time and automatically have access to those currencies in your storage.

Then when I'm done checking them out, I have to go back to my storage, and ctrl click the items back into one stash, or worse, place them one by one back somewhere since ctrl clicking ends up making a mess of your stash tab.

The same friction comes up when you check out the Atlas, then you're like "hmm ok maybe I;'ll run this map here" - exit the Atlas - go rummage in your stash tab for a waystone or more - go back to Atlas and try to find where you ended up scrolling!!!! since the position was lost - MAJOR PITA.

Likewise for the Atlas, when you pick a map, there should be a UX that comes up that lets you pick any of the Waystones you have, kinda like when you recharge stuff in No Man Sky and you get a popup with all the consumables you have available.

I don't get why they did that with expedition currency.

In POE 1 you had an expedition stash and all the currencies with the exception of exotic coinage went directly into that stash.

GGG should look at how successful MH Wilds is right now. That game is so fluid going from monster to monster, and the pace is unrelenting. The devs of that know people want to hunt monsters, and that's it. They streamlined the game to directly inject the dopamine from doing that right into your brain. And yet, despite this, MH Wilds is somewhat challenging! Imagine that.

I think GGG is out to lunch with their "vision" and "philosophy" about developing the game as it stands right now. The game is tedious and boring. It is not challenging in the slightest. Their obsession with "friction" in their "vision" is going to doom the game, one way or another.

Prioritize FUN. Not FRICTION.

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Arriadanae#2084 a écrit :

GGG should look at how successful MH Wilds is right now. That game is so fluid going from monster to monster, and the pace is unrelenting. The devs of that know people want to hunt monsters, and that's it. They streamlined the game to directly inject the dopamine from doing that right into your brain. And yet, despite this, MH Wilds is somewhat challenging! Imagine that.

I think GGG is out to lunch with their "vision" and "philosophy" about developing the game as it stands right now. The game is tedious and boring. It is not challenging in the slightest. Their obsession with "friction" in their "vision" is going to doom the game, one way or another.

Prioritize FUN. Not FRICTION.

We would need deterministic crafting and better itemisation in order to keep up that sort of pace. I spend too much time in town trying to figure out my gear because the drops aren't that great and the crafting RNG is also not good. Which leads to trading where you are now searching a resource outside the game to improve your gear.

And there is the passive tree and build crafting which leads players to outside sources to learn information or copy builds. This is a game where you spend as much time looking at stuff than actually fighting stuff, if not more.

Maybe they are taking not and seeing what people truly want. Maybe they are using this beta to start fresh so to speak.

I bet we will see this stuff added since a lot of people are requesting it,

I said the other day why can’t I automatically pick up currency like gold? Then again it does make my play more strategically when it drops.

Would be nice to be able to select what I want automatically picked up. Not sure if that’s a thing though.

The trash rares are for gold farming. They suck but they are supposed to. If every yellow was special and you kept it where do farm gold at? Not by picking it up because not that much drops.

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Halligan2092#7694 a écrit :

Maybe they are taking not and seeing what people truly want. Maybe they are using this beta to start fresh so to speak.

I bet we will see this stuff added since a lot of people are requesting it,

I said the other day why can’t I automatically pick up currency like gold? Then again it does make my play more strategically when it drops.

Would be nice to be able to select what I want automatically picked up. Not sure if that’s a thing though.

The trash rares are for gold farming. They suck but they are supposed to. If every yellow was special and you kept it where do farm gold at? Not by picking it up because not that much drops.

What you need to do is stop white knighting.

There is 0 evidence for anything you are saying.

Tell me a story about "The Great Pumpkin" and on Halloween nights.
He rises and fixes all the problems with GGG's game.

The Uniques will no longer be trash .

The Trials will be deleted, burned pissed on and burned again.

The exploding corpses will me limited to a mob type , like the fat boy so when you see one you know on site it explodes... and then it swells , turns red , then explodes... like a .. thing that does that.

You will be able to turn off visuals and it only leaves the radius circle of the effect on the floor .

You will be able to see the floor.

Archnemesis mobs are seen for the cancer they are and cut out of the game entirely.

The toilet bowls at GGG are painted with the face of the person who created Souleater.

You will have movement effect equal to the enemies you are fighting who can teleport , fast dash move a helluva a lot faster than you.

You wont be body blocked into corners by rat sized mobs.

You wont get stuck on coffee cups and candy bar wrappers littering the ground.

You will always be able to see you character , no places where scenery blind you to what is happening.

Maps will be stored in you MAP DEVICE and always available to choose from when you interact with it.

Currency that can alter maps ... is visible in the map device to juice maps.... IN THE MAP DEVICE. You know a UI that allows you to do all aspects of map manipulation from ONE place... and launch them.

Melee classes will be able to do just that ..... stand ON TOP OF THE ENEMY AND BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF IT WITH A BIG STICK... not run like some ranged bitch and die to mouse fart.

Unbind skills from weapons they decrease build variety.
might as well just start the game now as Maurauder with a complete gear set and built in actions... fighter , wizard , and cleric all come with gear only they wear , skills only they use boom here we are just throw that skill tree in the trash .....


STOP APOLOGIZING FOR GGG
STOP PRETERNDING YOU HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL AND KNOW ANYTHING THEY INTEND.
STOP ASSUMING ANYTHING OF VALUE IS CHANGING , I AIN'T SEEN SHIT!

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BattLeSCVs#6386 a écrit :

Yeah i really don't like their ideas on 'friction'. You can call it whatever you want, it doesn't feel good. Diablo 2 wasn't a success because of 'friction', it was a success in spite of 'friction'.

I think that really highlights one of the fundamental "issues" (concerns?) I always had with their "design philosophy":

It feels like they are still looking at D2 with rose-tinted glasses, and use that nostalgia to dictate their design goals, without ever asking themselves: Was it really friction that made D2 great? Or even more pointed: Was it *intentional* friction?

Whenever I hear Jonathan or Mark argue why they think friction is good, I can't help but think about a discussion in the Destiny 1 community a long time ago: Is the limited "active inventory size" per item slot good or bad, and people arguing back and forth pro and contra that "design decision". The truth: In an interview one of the engine developers revealed it was not a design decision at all, but a platform limitation. Destiny 1 had to run on base PS4 and Xbox One, and they wanted to have a snappy inventory, so they could only really handle that many items with the free memory available on those systems.

GGG still seems to misunderstand what deliberate decisions made D2 great, and what was just limitations of that time now mistaken for "great design decisions of the past".