Best PoE Melee player(cArn_): The Problem With Melee & How to Fix It

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Gang5ter15#1071 a écrit :

I disagree with the first thing basically. Cause connecting lv 100 to being a good player is not correct. Reaching level 100 is just a time thing. If you have more time than everyone else you will reach lv 100 before them.
There is basically no skill involved in reaching level 100.

Sure, cannot disagree.

But does it invalidate their opinion? Or who would you trust more? A random journalist or a lvl 1 newbie? Even worse, do you think melee is perfect?

Also, he is one of the FIRST to get to lvl 100 in SSF, as a TITAN, and has been involved with games like Diablo, and Path of Exile 1.

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Gang5ter15#1071 a écrit :

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N3vangel#0037 a écrit :

Persistence is a skill.

I means in the game its a support gem, but no persistence is not a skill as in how you play game. Its more like character trait after all.

Also that proves my point. Its all about time investment not about personal skill in the game. Being persistent does not make you a good player.

I don't think you have any clue what you are talking about.

If you find any error in the text then a quotation will be very appreciated.

Reducing added attack delays is already 40% of what could fix 1H maces. They still DO desperately need damage buff though.

I just migrated my 1h resonating shield/magma barrier+boneshatter titan from HCSSF because it wasn't viable at all with what i could find in SSF. But even in HC trade with high pdps 50 exalt mace (maybe doesn't sound like much but i could play for a year on SSF and never find anything even close to it) it's still struggling with damage already on T10+. Too much in the mace line of skills depend on high single hit damage as opposed to dps, like armour explosion, HoTG, perfect strike (since good chunk of its damage comes from ignite) and others.

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Climet#7103 a écrit :

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Gang5ter15#1071 a écrit :

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N3vangel#0037 a écrit :

Persistence is a skill.

I means in the game its a support gem, but no persistence is not a skill as in how you play game. Its more like character trait after all.

Also that proves my point. Its all about time investment not about personal skill in the game. Being persistent does not make you a good player.

I don't think you have any clue what you are talking about.

If you find any error in the text then a quotation will be very appreciated.

Nice argumentation buddy. Maybe next time cut the insult.

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Gang5ter15#1071 a écrit :

Nice argumentation buddy. Maybe next time cut the insult.

Trust me, I have not started arguing.

If you have anything of value to add then please do so.

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Climet#7103 a écrit :

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Gang5ter15#1071 a écrit :

Nice argumentation buddy. Maybe next time cut the insult.

Trust me, I have not started arguing.

If you have anything of value to add then please do so.

Why even make that post in the first place? Disprove me or argue, but dont make useless psots. My god.
It does not invalid their opinion. I wasnt talking about their opinion on the matter. Just correcting that you should see his opinion like basically every other person who plays the game. It does not put him on a higehr pedstal than anyone else.

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Gang5ter15#1071 a écrit :

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Climet#7103 a écrit :

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Gang5ter15#1071 a écrit :

Nice argumentation buddy. Maybe next time cut the insult.

Trust me, I have not started arguing.

If you have anything of value to add then please do so.

Why even make that post in the first place? Disprove me or argue, but dont make useless psots. My god.

I have 0 clue what you are talking about, you won. Now please leave this post alone.

"Why would armor slow you down with X amount of strength?"
Answer: Because you would break the armor otherwise.

Armor has mechanical limitations. It can't do it's job and give you full range of motion. If you force that range of motion it's going to break straps and bindings.
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GGG has struggled with melee combat for a very long time. I didn't roll melee because I knew this and figured nothing changed. Stats aside they've never quite grasped that there are certain perks melee needs in a game to be viable as melee.

Melee needs to deal more damage and/or sustain/take more damage and/or have higher CC potential. Melee has pretty much never had these things in PoE. Thus it's just a harder method of play.

I've always been a big melee player in video games which includes PvP. Melee concepts are fairly universal in most video games which is why I don't understand how they still don't get it.

Guy brings up good points on why melee and strength based passives are underperforming, and is immediately assailed for no reason by shoe sized iq subhumans.
God I love this community. /s

My experience as a full masochist thorn-shatter warbringer and seeing footages of players.

The issue is power escalation and the endgame actually turns into no-hit runs glassnukes.
Look at defenses:
Armor: practically you need it so any incoming damage is reduced to 10% tickles. It needs a serious redesign, because in its current form it boils down to "anything above this will kill me, underneath I can ignore it"
Especially that certain enemies come in swarm. What human reaction do you expect from players to spot out from a swarm of enemies that how much damage you can anticipate?
Add that you actually punish players to do this with time limits anyway...

Block: turtle charm, lucky block turns your game to gamble: you have 20% chance that you die
Because lets not forget: in the endgame nothing damages you or you get oneshotted.

A proposed solution: Introduce Guard (the unique stat) as base of shields. Introduce critical block and more block based mechanics.
Because how do you plan to balance endgame if the fight mechanic is the following:
- you get chance to evade (warriors facetank stuff, but lets say you have an evasion shield build) so you either get hit or not
- second layer is you have 75% to block chance and it will actually deal 0 damage. (this is why it should be a guard stat not an evasion that can trigger thorn)
- if you get hit depends on how much armor you have but in the endgame it either doesn't do any damage or again... oneshots you.
The issue is how you supposed to give players any skill based challenge if the endgame is nothing else than memorising what you can afk with your statcheck.




And we have the other character defensive stats:
Resistances are for everyone. You are either capped or anything kills you.


But here's the movement speed "problem". Hits are not connected if you're not even where the projectile lands. With thorn-build you feel this the other way around: For annoying ranged enemies I MUST stand still. So other players zoom the map and don't get damage, because they oneshot the screen and if enemies even casted any projectile you're already screens away... (unless you want to argue they're too fast now and pick up stray bullets... XD )

Then the health stats.
Why cant STR just increase your life % instead of +2. Would warriors be too OP if we could have 14k hp while a puny mage can run with 7-10k ES while getting hit by the same elemental damage?
And its a relative weakness.

Because both get the same spell damage. And a mage don't need to worry much about incoming melee hits.
Often games look like mages can have high healthpool but they get the damage fully. Fighters have high hp, but damage is mitigated. Tanks are juggernauts: they brush the damage off in exchange they have low dps... but need to remain, most endgame mechanics are time limited: breach, delirium and some fight are technically soft enrage timer (mechanics stack up until its overwhelming)

And enemy mods:
Majority of them arent even concerning for ranged.
As a melee volatile cag, cursed vines are brutal. 2 hit and you're dead. And all of those spawn in your face. For a ranged character the missile needs to approach you first.
And defensive perspective its elemental. As a melee hulk I need to get the same 2-3 hit to die as someone who shoots from distance. As a melee I should thrive in close range, not change my playstyle to a tickle-n-run.

Time Bubble or whatever its called.
A ranged ignores it. But as a melee I need to go in there and our already slow windup - that are already interrupted by dodgerolls to survive - turns into a really tedious slugfest.

Prevents recovery:
Again... in CLOSE range. Ranged characters ignore that. As a melee it means my 2-hit runs turns into 1hit runs. Not as if it matters, because the spells that can 2 shot me comes in packs anyway...

So as thorn warrior I just need to learn what can oneshot me.
I am not even sure if recoupe life nodes even work, because if anything reduces your healthpool to 100-to-0 there's not much to recover from.

And yeah... I'm a casual scrub who can sleep in t13-15 yellow maps, UNLESS the enemies have the mentioned mods above. Its ridiculous that a T7 white explosion enemy can wipe my character off. My current map clear is more about walking and grinding until I see a fire cag or cursed vine.
And now comes the collision issue. I know elitists say the 1-try-maps are cool and git gud because asa ranged you possibly feel really stupid if close ranged nuke mods kill you. "oh... silly me, I forgot to step out from the fire trail the enemy left behind"
Warrior: "DAMN! I charged into a volatile cag vine 6 pack nuke and I pushed the enemy so far behind to hit it I am standing in his crap now"
And you know whats even worse?! You use shield charge or leam to avoid damage but the damn WINDUP animation kills you!
Wait there's more! When you leap, but now suddenly there's a unit collision so instead jumping away you just do a fancy death animation, because explosion on the ground and distance doesn't matter vertically. XD

And maybe its not even the warrior is weak, its like everything else can be way stronger.
And look at gem scaling:
Shatter quality increases attack speed? Erm... ok... for a skill that needs a condition anyway? Thanks... I guess?
Scavanged plate gives more armor? Well... armor have the most brutal dmininishing return so after a point you don't even stack. Thats why endgame warriors just build evasion or ES instead stacking more armor. At least give us more nodes that turns armor to damage!
And no extra thorn?! C'mon! As if it would be op... XD

btw Spiked armor doesn't interact with armor increase. Not even confirmed if its an oversight, bug or intended. It should be somewhat of a feedback skill: you get increased armor by various sources, yet your thorn from armor is baseline.

Shield wall gives you more walls?
Wow... why? To use it as defensive tools you need like special setups, because almost every other skill will explode it anyway. And its not even casting multiple walls. You can raise 4 wall... Having 4 wall should be a map clear condition itself XD

HoG and shield charge cooldown? Mixed feeling. I guess its something... not like HoG increased dps in that case much, because other skills of yours already have to oneshot anything. You use it on rares and bosses and you're more limited by attack window.

There arent many gems that are straight more damage, or not conditional buildup.


Just look at other gem classes: quality brings more dps. I am not sure if this is rant bias, but would be interesting whats the ratio of other classes offensive/defensive/utility upgrade rate.
But other classes don't need to walk into danger, and they are so squishy they just build moar and MOAR damage. Best defense is if the enemies dies before they can do anything.