THAT'S IT GGG - YOU LOST 200K PLAYERS WITH THIS!

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dmc9014#4875 a écrit :

i have been driven to this point. so now i respond in kind.

hence its war.

Well, again: That's how human history works. Every group saying "the other started the war and we just defend ourselfs".

I mean, sad enough that you see this as a "war", which is a pretty strong term, considering we are talking about an online conflict with strangers about a digital product that has no direct influence on your life other then providing you some fun (or frustration).

i will concede that my choice of words is perhaps a bit dramatic.

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AceNightfire#0980 a écrit :

Forget the title above, it was completely clickbait and if you read this, it probably worked, because you didn't know what this thread was about, but you still clicked on it, just because the whole title is written very provocative and invites people who are either "against" or "in favour of" GGG.

It's sad to see that threads, that have strong provocative titles and content, often with little to none constructive feedback, generate more attention then actual well written feedback threads. This leads to a more and more toxic writing-behavior and in return lessens our impact on the game, because (passive-)aggressive posts often contain alot of emotion, but seldom suggestions on how to make something better.

If you read through some of these hot topics, it's very often not about the game anymore. People are offended from each other and try to defend their point of view by attacking others. Here and there someone tries to make a sound argument, but especially these posts get either no response or are also attacked.

Is the PoE community really that toxic? Or can it do better? I wonder.

Campaign good, end game bad. Change end game. Best feedback they will ever get.

You may not see it if you think the problems lie in tiny adjustments then you will be expecting those kinds of things to be said but I personally believe the end game is a game killer and they need to create something similar to the campaign. They already made the campaign so they know how to do it.

Your perceptions on what real feedback is will be completely subjective to what if any problems you see.

The fact that people have a serious dislike of the end game is enough information for ggg to know that it's bad and won't work if they want to keep alot of players. By this stage they know what most people like and dislike its now on them to decide if they care.

Agreed. Endgame is bad. Everything about it. If they add more acts, more classes, more items and skills, it'll all be great up until about level 65 where it turns to crap. The problem is if they add more content without fixing the core issues, I fear it'll lead to more work on the backend. And instead of scrapping current endgame they'll just keep bandaiding it in the hopes that it becomes tolerable to the playerbase.

And I dont think that many people would disagree with you, that endgame is in a bad state. The purpose of this thread was not to silence people who offer critical feedback. It was more about to make people aware of HOW to provide that feedback (calm, constructive and non-toxic). We would achieve so much more if people could do that. I feel like at least 80% of the discussions end up in a toxic war between 2 fractions.

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EffKayZA#1861 a écrit :

I have also noticed that there is a lot of toxicity and needless aggression in these forums.

It's not only a problem in the POE2 forums, it's a current problem in every aspect of our life.

F.e. politics.....If you're for or against something people put you in a certain corner and ofc don't allow oppinions other than theyrs.

It started to become significant during the Covid time and is becomeng more toxic every day.

I think the world needs a big "pillow fihgt day" or so to let people get rid of all theyr aggressions toward each other.....Othervise this won't end prety well for the humanity if all the toxicity is damming up without any vault to get rid of it. ;)

This is internet discourse in forums, it has always been internet discourse in forums, and its not going to change.

Over 20 years ago I was in a final fantasy forum. There was one guy who really hated FF8, so much so that he would go into posts that were just asking for help with the game to post his screed about how much he hated it, and telling people they were <slurs> for liking it.

Much like these forums in 2025, he wasnt dealt with by the mods, he was allowed to continue posting his negative opinion and slurs wherever he liked.

When people are enjoying something, they dont tend to engage with any arena of feedback, they enjoy that thing and then move on. When they have problems with something thats when they will post/review, and thats only if they care enough about the thing to do so.

If people are just being outright rude, dont reply, just use the report button and maybe they'll get a probation.

Outside of that theres nothing you can do about how people post. In all the time EA has been open I've only seen two threads free of negative comments so far, the great warrior feedback thread posted a few weeks in, and the UI improvements thread with image examples. If you really care about keeping detailed feedback visible, dont do this, bump those posts.

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AceNightfire#0980 a écrit :

Well, again: That's how human history works. Every group saying "the other started the war and we just defend ourselfs".

See, while this statement is correct, it doesn't apply in this case.

This community was never toxic to newcomers. There's a million anecdotal stories about someone who joined the game and asked for help in global, only for some veteran to hold his hand throughout the game. I've done it myself with random people before, and sometimes we even ended up leaguestarting together on discord later on.

And yet, most poe2 tourists on the forums would describe me as toxic. Why is that?

Because an army of them entered these forums and started shitting on veterans for criticising the game. I've written this a hundred times before in here. Normally, yes, in these types of conflicts, both sides are at fault. On this one, not so. It is unfortunate, but GGG decided to simply import a legion of toxic gamehoppers who trashtalked any and all criticism of the game by veterans with zero understanding of what was being discussed.

There is no fixing this. There is no going back. This community will forever be divided, as was predicted by Chris Wilson when they embarked on this project. And it is the fault of the company itself. There is no solution, because the tourists simply will never be able to see our perspective.

"

PrimordialDarkness#3913 a écrit :

"

AceNightfire#0980 a écrit :

Well, again: That's how human history works. Every group saying "the other started the war and we just defend ourselfs".

See, while this statement is correct, it doesn't apply in this case.

This community was never toxic to newcomers. There's a million anecdotal stories about someone who joined the game and asked for help in global, only for some veteran to hold his hand throughout the game. I've done it myself with random people before, and sometimes we even ended up leaguestarting together on discord later on.

And yet, most poe2 tourists on the forums would describe me as toxic. Why is that?

Because an army of them entered these forums and started shitting on veterans for criticising the game. I've written this a hundred times before in here. Normally, yes, in these types of conflicts, both sides are at fault. On this one, not so. It is unfortunate, but GGG decided to simply import a legion of toxic gamehoppers who trashtalked any and all criticism of the game by veterans with zero understanding of what was being discussed.

There is no fixing this. There is no going back. This community will forever be divided, as was predicted by Chris Wilson when they embarked on this project. And it is the fault of the company itself. There is no solution, because the tourists simply will never be able to see our perspective.

I mean, do we really care when some new ppl have a tantrum and think "veterans talking back" or "veterans criticising the game" is toxic?

I view it as the "filter".
If you understand and like PoE? Good.
If you don't understand, but like PoE? Good. Someone is willing to help you if needed.
If you don't understand PoE and don't like to adapt? You got filtered.

Personally, I don't think GGG could have done something to prevent this from happening in the long run. These type of gamers entered so many games I've played for ages only to throw their tantrum, they often leave after some time anyway.
I think a huge mistake, related to actual feedback, was that GGG made "Early Access" a beta everyone can join - if they pay the 30 bucks.

I get why they did it (and no, it's not only money), but having so many new ppl who talk about something when they don't even understand the basics... it's like "false-true" feedback. It's true because they don't know better, but it's false because they don't know better.

These "tourists" or "Karen's of gaming" how I call them are just something we have to deal with, no matter where you go. PoE1 was mainly "protected" from them because it was niche and had a way higher entry level.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

"

PrimordialDarkness#3913 a écrit :

"

AceNightfire#0980 a écrit :

Well, again: That's how human history works. Every group saying "the other started the war and we just defend ourselfs".

See, while this statement is correct, it doesn't apply in this case.

This community was never toxic to newcomers. There's a million anecdotal stories about someone who joined the game and asked for help in global, only for some veteran to hold his hand throughout the game. I've done it myself with random people before, and sometimes we even ended up leaguestarting together on discord later on.

And yet, most poe2 tourists on the forums would describe me as toxic. Why is that?

Because an army of them entered these forums and started shitting on veterans for criticising the game. I've written this a hundred times before in here. Normally, yes, in these types of conflicts, both sides are at fault. On this one, not so. It is unfortunate, but GGG decided to simply import a legion of toxic gamehoppers who trashtalked any and all criticism of the game by veterans with zero understanding of what was being discussed.

There is no fixing this. There is no going back. This community will forever be divided, as was predicted by Chris Wilson when they embarked on this project. And it is the fault of the company itself. There is no solution, because the tourists simply will never be able to see our perspective.

I mean, do we really care when some new ppl have a tantrum and think "veterans talking back" or "veterans criticising the game" is toxic?

I view it as the "filter".
If you understand and like PoE? Good.
If you don't understand, but like PoE? Good. Someone is willing to help you if needed.
If you don't understand PoE and don't like to adapt? You got filtered.

Personally, I don't think GGG could have done something to prevent this from happening in the long run. These type of gamers entered so many games I've played for ages only to throw their tantrum, they often leave after some time anyway.
I think a huge mistake, related to actual feedback, was that GGG made "Early Access" a beta everyone can join - if they pay the 30 bucks.

I get why they did it (and no, it's not only money), but having so many new ppl who talk about something when they don't even understand the basics... it's like "false-true" feedback. It's true because they don't know better, but it's false because they don't know better.

These "tourists" or "Karen's of gaming" how I call them are just something we have to deal with, no matter where you go. PoE1 was mainly "protected" from them because it was niche and had a way higher entry level.

Then go back to the niche with your crap elitist attitude. You goofus act as if everyone who doesn't play slot machine POE1 with regularity is a tourist and isn't good at games. Get real lmao