Respec shoud be free

"

z3mcneil#3966 a écrit :

Want to add my 2 cents here regarding the low gold drop overall. I see all defenders of high respec cost basically go by the same argument -> they themselves don't mind the grinding, and they are agaisnt other players having fun in their own way. What a selfish way to run a game, and if you have an entire team of devs thinking like this, well that's exactly how WoW ran itself into the ground.

Those who say currently players have enough gold: no we don't. My witch is 2/3 through Act 2 and still hasn't died once despite random lag spikes, is that good enough for the elitists? I have 12k gold, that's from selling every blue and yellow gear I can't salvage, and a random garbage rare from the NPC costs 1/3 to half of all my total gold. I will go completely broke just by gambling 6-8 times (almost guraranteed to get only garbage) or just total respec one time. That's not acceptable. Some people seem to have no idea how many good games are out there and how valuable gaming time is in 2024. This isn't 2004 anymore, the competition for gamers' time and money, industry wide and worldwide, is brutal.

So according to these people, it's perfectly fine for a casual player who clears maps much slower than me to grind for say 5 hours just to have enough gold to respec once, in the hope it will improve their suboptimal build. Do you guys have any idea how much actually fun, meaningful content I can experience in 5 hours in Elden Ring, Wukong, Baldur's Gate 3, Cyberpunk 2077 and so on and so on? It only shows that you might be a no lifer and you don't play a lot of other games to realize how valuable your time can be. If the game only panders to this crowd, and ignore both the overwhelming majority that is the casuals and players like me who have no problem skill-wise but not time-wise, soon you won't have a game. The idea of trying more than 1 or 2 characters, or playing every season, is already seeming incresingly unattractive to a lot of people.

Since Tencent owns GGG, I'll use China as an example. PoE1 in China had unique QoL features exclusive to that 1 country, like a pet that auto pickup and auto sell, similar to the pet in Torchlight. Because even though Chinese gamers might be quite grindy themselves (all those meaningless gatcha games come to mind) but even they value their time investment. WoW and FF14 as MMORPGs should in theory be some of the most grindy games in existence and as live-service games they're also built around the season/league system, but in China a LOT of players just use real money to buy gold because it's still a lot cheaper than sinking huge amount of time in real life, because in real life time is money, unless you're a no lifer. They almost never get banned because even the companies that run these games realize that you need to let the players have their fun then you earn their subscription fee, or they quit and you get nothing.

"

z3mcneil#3966 a écrit :

Want to add my 2 cents here regarding the low gold drop overall. I see all defenders of high respec cost basically go by the same argument -> they themselves don't mind the grinding, and they are agaisnt other players having fun in their own way. What a selfish way to run a game, and if you have an entire team of devs thinking like this, well that's exactly how WoW ran itself into the ground.

Those who say currently players have enough gold: no we don't. My witch is 2/3 through Act 2 and still hasn't died once despite random lag spikes, is that good enough for the elitists? I have 12k gold, that's from selling every blue and yellow gear I can't salvage, and a random garbage rare from the NPC costs 1/3 to half of all my total gold. I will go completely broke just by gambling 6-8 times (almost guraranteed to get only garbage) or just total respec one time. That's not acceptable. Some people seem to have no idea how many good games are out there and how valuable gaming time is in 2024. This isn't 2004 anymore, the competition for gamers' time and money, industry wide and worldwide, is brutal.

So according to these people, it's perfectly fine for a casual player who clears maps much slower than me to grind for say 5 hours just to have enough gold to respec once, in the hope it will improve their suboptimal build. Do you guys have any idea how much actually fun, meaningful content I can experience in 5 hours in Elden Ring, Wukong, Baldur's Gate 3, Cyberpunk 2077 and so on and so on? It only shows that you might be a no lifer and you don't play a lot of other games to realize how valuable your time can be. If the game only panders to this crowd, and ignore both the overwhelming majority that is the casuals and players like me who have no problem skill-wise but not time-wise, soon you won't have a game. The idea of trying more than 1 or 2 characters, or playing every season, is already seeming incresingly unattractive to a lot of people.

Since Tencent owns GGG, I'll use China as an example. PoE1 in China had unique QoL features exclusive to that 1 country, like a pet that auto pickup and auto sell, similar to the pet in Torchlight. Because even though Chinese gamers might be quite grindy themselves (all those meaningless gatcha games come to mind) but even they value their time investment. WoW and FF14 as MMORPGs should in theory be some of the most grindy games in existence and as live-service games they're also built around the season/league system, but in China a LOT of players just use real money to buy gold because it's still a lot cheaper than sinking huge amount of time in real life, because in real life time is money, unless you're a no lifer. They almost never get banned because even the companies that run these games realize that you need to let the players have their fun then you earn their subscription fee, or they quit and you get nothing.

"

seti2323#1585 a écrit :

It's just cruel to make everyone not have that amazing QoL convenience.

"

just_dont#6539 a écrit :

"

seti2323#1585 a écrit :

It's just cruel to make everyone not have that amazing QoL convenience.

It's not "just" QoL. The arguments were listed multiple times in this thread.
Complete respec available for free inevitably means people start optimizing for specific maps and/or bosses.

By the way, not a single decent ARPG has "free" build change. At best, there's Diablo 3/4 level, where you can partly respec for free, but other aspects (paragon, gear for D3, etc) take non-trivial amount of effort to switch.

It's not much different with PoE2, where you can change your skill gems for free and quite quickly.

"

just_dont#6539 a écrit :

"

seti2323#1585 a écrit :

It's just cruel to make everyone not have that amazing QoL convenience.

It's not "just" QoL. The arguments were listed multiple times in this thread.
Complete respec available for free inevitably means people start optimizing for specific maps and/or bosses.

By the way, not a single decent ARPG has "free" build change. At best, there's Diablo 3/4 level, where you can partly respec for free, but other aspects (paragon, gear for D3, etc) take non-trivial amount of effort to switch.

It's not much different with PoE2, where you can change your skill gems for free and quite quickly.

"

The3rdLetter#3931 a écrit :

Not free. Lower. +1

"

nokz#6226 a écrit :

"nobody else does it" can't be the counterargument here nor the fictional scenario of people switching builds every 5 minutes. And even if people would do that, whats the harm? Why does it bother you if you don't want to do it?

"

Praefator#6109 a écrit :

What's the problem with switching builds for different bosses? We're expected to do that anyway, just at a much slower pace because of the grind.