Ruthless? No thanks.

I mean... some players will enjoy it for sure. I honestly see no problem with it, you don't have to play it.

Would just be nice if there was a mode for players that don't like endless grinding, too, though.

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Char1983 a écrit :

I mean... some players will enjoy it for sure. I honestly see no problem with it, you don't have to play it.

Would just be nice if there was a mode for players that don't like endless grinding, too, though.

sure i dont have to play it...my issue is that they sacrifice time/resources for this and that effects me and everyone else, too. poe is already in a bad state and could use some extra work but nooo instead lets send some of the team to work on something that only the 1% will even try and maybe enjoy

their priorities are so out of order. there are so many better things they could work on instead of this. things that everyone could benefit from.

I agree their priorities are not in order - at least not in the order I would like them to be, but I have the feeling there is somewhat of a consensus that things aren't quite right and not going quite in the right direction either.

That being said, I am not sure how much development resources this actually binds, my guess would be: not actually that many.

What I find more strange is that the typical argument (or one of the typical arguments) against a more casual-friendly league is that that would split up the player base even more than it already is, yet they introduced both SSF and ruthless, both of which further segment the player base. Well, maybe its not GGG saying that, but only the white knights.

a argument of ssf players has ever been that they would find it hilarious to search for an item upgrade for hours if it's available for 1c to buy.

buying stuff spoils your own feeling of being rewarded, selling stuff spoils other people's progress.

there is small hope that prices in ruthless match the time you have to spend finding them ingame.

which would remove the intention to play ssf and move to ruthless league for some players.
and that's where i expect the main shift to happen, there is little reason for most trade league players to start a more difficult game but i could be wrong on that. probably depends on what streamers play.

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Char1983 a écrit :

I agree their priorities are not in order - at least not in the order I would like them to be, but I have the feeling there is somewhat of a consensus that things aren't quite right and not going quite in the right direction either.

Maybe, but is there a consensus about what "the right direction" is?

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Char1983 a écrit :

That being said, I am not sure how much development resources this actually binds, my guess would be: not actually that many.

I dont understand this "development resources" argument by people who dislike the current direction of PoE. The current progress towards this direction is due to using development resources. So if they have less to use PoE will deteriorate (from their view) slower. Wouldnt that be a good thing?

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Char1983 a écrit :

What I find more strange is that the typical argument (or one of the typical arguments) against a more casual-friendly league is that that would split up the player base even more than it already is, yet they introduced both SSF and ruthless, both of which further segment the player base. Well, maybe its not GGG saying that, but only the white knights.

SSF: People playing SSF were apart in their own segment anyway. So technically from this POV there is no segmentation. Segmentation only comes with people playing SSF due to there being "a formal recognition" of SSF.
Ruthless: AFAIK the expected number of players is so small that it has approximately no practical relevance.
Casual mode: This would obviously lead to true and significant segmentation of the trade leagues. Note that I am not against Casual mode but if GGG (or white knights) make this argument its not invalid due to them making SSF/Ruthless.

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vio a écrit :

a argument of ssf players has ever been that they would find it hilarious to search for an item upgrade for hours if it's available for 1c to buy.

buying stuff spoils your own feeling of being rewarded, selling stuff spoils other people's progress.

there is small hope that prices in ruthless match the time you have to spend finding them ingame.

This won't happen, for a very simple statistical reason: Most of the items that are generated through you playing the game do not fit your build. Which means that for every useful item that fits your build, there are dozens or hundreds of items that are of similar "quality", but they just don't work for you - so you (potentially) sell them.

Which, in turn, means that for every item your build needs (either you or someone else playing that build), it is much more likely that someone not playing your build finds it, than that you (or someone else playing your build) finds it.

The problem is made less bad by lots of people playing your build (which is why items for popular builds are more expensive).

The problem is also made worse if less items are generated in general, because that increases the incentive to sell them, so Ruthless will make the problem comparatively worse, not better.

Of course, the problem is also made less bad if less people play, though the effect is going to be rather small. If only 10 people play Ruthless, the chance of the right item being generated for you is 10% (given similar play times for all). Yay!

Also, if there were only two builds, the chances would be better that the right item is dropped for the right person. But there are hundreds of builds, a lot of them needing specialized items. Generic items that everyone needs (thing early league MS / life / resist boots) are priced closer to what you envision.

Is there a solution? Well, theoretically, yes. Make it more likely that the items generated through you playing the game fit your build. The one way to do that is smart loot. The other way to do that is to make you craft most of your items. Both have drawbacks. But yes, that, in a nutshell, is why most items that drop are not worth picking up. And why crafted items are priced much closer to the cost / time investment you would have to make to generate them yourself.

Personally, I would love a league where only white items and crafting materials drop and where I would have to craft everything myself. Alch and chaos orbs are a problem though, as they generate non-targeted loot, leading to the issues discussed above, same for all other gamble-crafting methods. So one would need more deterministic crafting tools maybe. In any case, it isn't going to happen and I guess I am also an outlier - most people would not like this.

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Zrevnur a écrit :

Maybe, but is there a consensus about what "the right direction" is?

No, or at least I don't think so, which is why I was careful with my wording. At least I tried to be.

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Zrevnur a écrit :

Ruthless: AFAIK the expected number of players is so small that it has approximately no practical relevance.

Well, that also means that the entire mode has very little practical relevance...

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Zrevnur a écrit :

Casual mode: This would obviously lead to true and significant segmentation of the trade leagues. Note that I am not against Casual mode but if GGG (or white knights) make this argument its not invalid due to them making SSF/Ruthless.

Well, maybe it is not invalid in that sense, but right now I (casual) have been segmented into the "doesn't play the game at all" category. So being segmented into the "plays standard" or "plays casual mode" group would not hurt the normal trade league either. Also, if you make standard the "casual mode", you don't even segment much.

Apart from that, I find that argument to be hilarious. It essentially boils down to "let's not introduce that mode, we are afraid people would like it too much and actually play it".

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Char1983 a écrit :

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Zrevnur a écrit :

Ruthless: AFAIK the expected number of players is so small that it has approximately no practical relevance.

Well, that also means that the entire mode has very little practical relevance...

I dont think so. For example it may serve as advertisement if it attracts streamers or causes them to play longer.
And they can use it as a sandbox for trying things (nerfs) before putting them into the main game. (I dont think this aspect will be popular though. IIRC they did however use that argument as one of the reasons for making the mode.)

That's a pretty bad argument though, and shows a bit of a lack of understanding. What works in Ruthless doesn't necessarily work in the "normal" game, too - just like the entire game right now is probably fine if you play the game for a living, but not really fine if you play it for a few hours per week recreationally.

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Johny_Snow a écrit :

I enjoy having no issues playing while so many people are complaining. I feed on tears, basically. I enjoy the league and the salt only makes it more delicious

Thats actually something the vast majority of POE snobs get off on. Its really weird their enjoyment comes from keeping others from enjoying the game.

Its a non competitive game, and what another person does has no impact on them in any way shape or form... yet they all hot and bothered over gatekeeping others.

It's very weird