[3.26] Ice Dancing God - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything

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Kelvynn#6607 a écrit :

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Corazu#5976 a écrit :

Notably, using Gravebind on a merc means we'll need to put a source of culling on them if we still want cull, since we won't be able to cull with ball lightning CWDT anymore.

Why is that? I don't see anything that affects how we cause the enemies to die. I do all the damage and cull the enemies (with CDWT or Ambush & Assassinate). They die. Gravebind counts them dying as the merc's kill and Obliteration makes them explode. Is there something wrong with that logic?

Ugh, I'm dumb. My apologies for being so blatantly incorrect. I was reading elsewhere and someone mentioned the problem with Gravebind would be if you had any on kill effects. And my brain thought of culling but not actually how that interaction works.

It would matter for MF stuff on kill I suppose but you're right, culling doesn't factor at all.

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Corazu#5976 a écrit :

Ugh, I'm dumb. My apologies for being so blatantly incorrect. I was reading elsewhere and someone mentioned the problem with Gravebind would be if you had any on kill effects. And my brain thought of culling but not actually how that interaction works.

It would matter for MF stuff on kill I suppose but you're right, culling doesn't factor at all.

This is also a benefit because if we can manage to keep them alive well enough you can put rarity gear on them since they're getting the kill credit in order to use them as an MF vessel through gearing.

Since the atlas effects are map wide and don't care who gets kills either I can't think of any notable source of MF/Loot bonus that couldn't be offloaded to the merc as long the merc doesn't just keep evaporating.

Oh, definitely.

From everything they've said, and the fact they are going to contribute 50% HP to enemies, I think it stands to reason they should be able to be tanky enough to survive if you give them the right gear and find the right archetype.

After some research, I have a new concern about the radius of effect from Gravebind. Apparently it's only 40 units, or 4 meters. For reference, the base radius of Banners are 4.6m, and most auras are 3.6m at level 1 and 5.5m at level 20. Half the horizontal distance of your screen in 16:9 aspect ratio is 8.5m. So at 4m, we're talking about less than a quarter of your screen, widthwise.

So if the merc ends up behind while we're spinning head first into packs, then there's a chance the effect won't reach, and even if it does reach some, it may not cover the whole pack, potentially slowing the chain reaction you'd normally get, unless dying straight up to Obliteration's effect alone.

I also have no idea what kind of skills the Scion mercs will have either, so that may play a bigger part into it. Might need to find one with, say, lightning tendrils or something along those lines, so it constantly tries to stay close to enemies and not attack from a distance.

Hopefully all this isn't an issue and I'm just being paranoid.

For reference, the radius was discovered by mining the relevant data from the game files:

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The relevant modifier EnemiesKilledCountAsYoursUnique__1 in Mods.dat points to an entry in BuffTemplates.dat named DeathGripAura which has an AuraRadius of 40 units.

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Verdale#4745 a écrit :

After some research, I have a new concern about the radius of effect from Gravebind. Apparently it's only 40 units, or 4 meters. For reference, the base radius of Banners are 4.6m, and most auras are 3.6m at level 1 and 5.5m at level 20.

So if the merc ends up behind while we're spinning head first into packs, then there's a chance the effect won't reach, and even if it does reach some, it may not cover the whole pack, potentially slowing the chain reaction you'd normally get, unless dying straight up to Obliteration's effect alone.

I also have no idea what kind of skills the Scion mercs will have either, so that may play a bigger part into it. Might need to find one with, say, lightning tendrils or something along those lines, so it constantly tries to stay close to enemies and not attack from a distance.

Hopefully all this isn't an issue and I'm just being paranoid.

I didn't even think about that when everyone started talking about obliteration merc ideas.

4m is an absolutely abysaml nearby radius that's basically only going to pop the pack you're standing in if the merc is with you. There's never going to be any o f the actual chaining and explode prolif that a proper explode setup has because by the 2nd pack they'll already be out of range unless they die in 1 single explosion like you said.

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mysticturtle12#5997 a écrit :

4m is an absolutely abysaml nearby radius that's basically only going to pop the pack you're standing in if the merc is with you. There's never going to be any o f the actual chaining and explode prolif that a proper explode setup has because by the 2nd pack they'll already be out of range unless they die in 1 single explosion like you said.

Yeah, it's a bit of a worry. Really won't know how it will be until we try it out, but it's concerning to say the least. Also no idea how the merc AI will behave. If it's like other minions, then it may get held up on some random lone mob walking in from off screen as you pass through an area, and only move back towards you once you've gotten too far away. Anyone who played minions prior to Convocation will know how awful that was.

thoughts on adding heavy strike of trarthus to one of the gem slots for kicks and giggles to synergize with whispering ice on single target? =P

We don't have any of the support for a strike skill, there's no way it would be as good as it would be in an int focused heavy strike build, should one exist.

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Verdale#4745 a écrit :

After some research, I have a new concern about the radius of effect from Gravebind. Apparently it's only 40 units, or 4 meters. For reference, the base radius of Banners are 4.6m, and most auras are 3.6m at level 1 and 5.5m at level 20. Half the horizontal distance of your screen in 16:9 aspect ratio is 8.5m. So at 4m, we're talking about less than a quarter of your screen, widthwise.

Does this mean Witch is back on the menu?

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Verdale#4745 a écrit :

After some research, I have a new concern about the radius of effect from Gravebind. Apparently it's only 40 units, or 4 meters. For reference, the base radius of Banners are 4.6m, and most auras are 3.6m at level 1 and 5.5m at level 20. Half the horizontal distance of your screen in 16:9 aspect ratio is 8.5m. So at 4m, we're talking about less than a quarter of your screen, widthwise.

So if the merc ends up behind while we're spinning head first into packs, then there's a chance the effect won't reach, and even if it does reach some, it may not cover the whole pack, potentially slowing the chain reaction you'd normally get, unless dying straight up to Obliteration's effect alone.

This is one reason I considered Asenath's Gentle Touch, but ultimately it depends on the merc's behavior and skills — something we can only see in-game.