Exp Loss is freaking unbalanced

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the8thark a écrit :

There is one way to combat this. Do a World of Warcraft style resurrection sickness. Say for the next 5-10 mins your XP gain is 50% only. And if you die again with this on you get level 2 resurrection sickness that decreases your XP gain to 25%. Etc etc keep dying with the res sickness on and you can go all the way down to zero XP gained for kills. But wait out the 5-10 mins or go killing and don't die in that period and all your stacks of resurrection sickness go away.

This does not harm the XP you have already gained but it is enough of a punishment so those people who love fasy grinding will try to avoid dying a lot.

This is still a form of punishment. People don't play ARPG to be punished. They play it to be rewarded.

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the8thark a écrit :

There is one way to combat this. Do a World of Warcraft style resurrection sickness. Say for the next 5-10 mins your XP gain is 50% only. And if you die again with this on you get level 2 resurrection sickness that decreases your XP gain to 25%. Etc etc keep dying with the res sickness on and you can go all the way down to zero XP gained for kills. But wait out the 5-10 mins or go killing and don't die in that period and all your stacks of resurrection sickness go away.

This does not harm the XP you have already gained but it is enough of a punishment so those people who love fasy grinding will try to avoid dying a lot.

+1 This would be an improvement over the current system. I still would not like dying, but this sort of system wouldn't make me want to play less

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Faerie_Storm a écrit :

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the8thark a écrit :

There is one way to combat this. Do a World of Warcraft style resurrection sickness. Say for the next 5-10 mins your XP gain is 50% only. And if you die again with this on you get level 2 resurrection sickness that decreases your XP gain to 25%. Etc etc keep dying with the res sickness on and you can go all the way down to zero XP gained for kills. But wait out the 5-10 mins or go killing and don't die in that period and all your stacks of resurrection sickness go away.

This does not harm the XP you have already gained but it is enough of a punishment so those people who love fasy grinding will try to avoid dying a lot.

+1 This would be an improvement over the current system. I still would not like dying, but this sort of system wouldn't make me want to play less

More importantly, it stops zerging, which the current system doesn't

I'm pretty sure the defenders of the penalty care less for zerging, and more for how much will a player suffer over XP loss. WoW style debuff, which I suggested earlier, has no such component, i.e. it doesn't provoke player discomfort almost at all, it is just a utility mechanism, and much less a punitive measure.

So you can bet people would attack it. They want you to suffer and be punished as much as possible, this is a hardcore game :\ Additionally, if it's in WoW, it must be very, VERY bad for PoE, so..

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Undon3 a écrit :

I'm pretty sure the defenders of the penalty care less for zerging, and more for how much will a player suffer over XP loss. WoW style debuff, which I suggested earlier, has no such component, i.e. it doesn't provoke player discomfort almost at all, it is just a utility mechanism, and much less a punitive measure.

So you can bet people would attack it. They want you to suffer and be punished as much as possible, this is a hardcore game :\ Additionally, if it's in WoW, it must be very, VERY bad for PoE, so..

Yeah, if GGG listens to them, I don't see this game ever becoming popular, leading to it's eventual shutdown.

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coli a écrit :

Yeah, if GGG listens to them, I don't see this game ever becoming popular, leading to it's eventual shutdown.

I would disagree. I think a good game developer would take everything into account. Even ideas from other games and see if they can improve their own game.

If the only thing you do is hate your competition (ie other MMO's and ARPGs) then fine. But a better way is to learn from the competition, and improve on things they do to make the best game you can. Just because X feature in in Y other game, does not mean the developers can't improve on it and add it to their own game. As long as it improves their own game, they have done a good thing.

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THEHORNEDRAT a écrit :

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strongbong a écrit :

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kodr a écrit :

maybe. Funny enough, when PoE entered OB, the number of D3 players went down, but now it's kinda back up. I guess people take advice from this forum, they actually went back to D3 :)

Because of topic name probably. Like many here have said..

grinding an entire day to lose it all in one death - pretty idiotic system and is gonna have people leaving the game. I know this as i've been the host of a game with thousands of players

As many casuals go back to D3 the better. Unfortunately there are still quite a few around here still. Some of us vets feel 15% is too lenient. we wanted 35% penalty, GGG brushed us off :(

troll more noob

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coli a écrit :

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Undon3 a écrit :

I'm pretty sure the defenders of the penalty care less for zerging, and more for how much will a player suffer over XP loss. WoW style debuff, which I suggested earlier, has no such component, i.e. it doesn't provoke player discomfort almost at all, it is just a utility mechanism, and much less a punitive measure.

So you can bet people would attack it. They want you to suffer and be punished as much as possible, this is a hardcore game :\ Additionally, if it's in WoW, it must be very, VERY bad for PoE, so..

Yeah, if GGG listens to them, I don't see this game ever becoming popular, leading to it's eventual shutdown.

its already happening

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Undon3 a écrit :

I'm pretty sure the defenders of the penalty care less for zerging, and more for how much will a player suffer over XP loss. WoW style debuff, which I suggested earlier, has no such component, i.e. it doesn't provoke player discomfort almost at all, it is just a utility mechanism, and much less a punitive measure.

So you can bet people would attack it. They want you to suffer and be punished as much as possible, this is a hardcore game :\ Additionally, if it's in WoW, it must be very, VERY bad for PoE, so..

I never said that players should suffer with XP loss. I don't think players should hate dieing in this game any more than they do in other games. All I have said is that dieing needs to matter and not be a free pointless part of the game. I have said that without a death penalty that matters this game would feel incredibly stupid.

If players don't feel discomfort from dieing then something is wrong. But that doesn't mean that I want noobs to suffer or any BS like that.

Did this many people freak out over games over games like Dark Souls as well? That game is far more difficult.

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iamstryker a écrit :

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Undon3 a écrit :

I'm pretty sure the defenders of the penalty care less for zerging, and more for how much will a player suffer over XP loss. WoW style debuff, which I suggested earlier, has no such component, i.e. it doesn't provoke player discomfort almost at all, it is just a utility mechanism, and much less a punitive measure.

So you can bet people would attack it. They want you to suffer and be punished as much as possible, this is a hardcore game :\ Additionally, if it's in WoW, it must be very, VERY bad for PoE, so..

I never said that players should suffer with XP loss. I don't think players should hate dieing in this game any more than they do in other games. All I have said is that dieing needs to matter and not be a free pointless part of the game. I have said that without a death penalty that matters this game would feel incredibly stupid.

If players don't feel discomfort from dieing then something is wrong. But that doesn't mean that I want noobs to suffer or any BS like that.

Did this many people freak out over games over games like Dark Souls as well? That game is far more difficult.

I really need to buy that Dark Souls thing. I heard a lot of good things about it, and now it's on the PC I guess, me never bothering with consoles and so on :)

Now, back on topic. You are one of the moderate guys. I'm sure that you read most of the posts here. People start arguing for the current death penalty by saying its lack would allow zerging etc., than when they are proven wrong, they would still continue to find stuff in favour of the death penalty and not bother to try seeing the other side. They find straw men by saying that we want the removal of the penalty (this wasn't suggested, only balancing it, making it fair to all levels in a difficulty etc.)

If I would not have been in this position before, I wouldn't pretend to know... I was in a realm-top WoW raiding guild since the mid-end of vanilla to Cata end. The guild was full of elitists, probably me included, with all kinds of arcane sheets and external apps to calculate each encounter based on gear and stats and so on, the full "hardcore" crap. The guys I played with regularly visited the forums and posted mostly against any usability features in the game (as they had the required experience to disregard any such changes, so why should others enjoy them...), I remember that when stuff like badges or LFR came into existence, they produced an anti-n00b panic uproar in the Blizz forums, like the game was about to die any moment now because OMG, the "n00bs" will have epics, or the n00bs will see raid endgame. They soon realised that our raiding epics were WAY BETTER, and what do you know, everything calmed down. I felt pity for my fellow guildies...

Looking on this topic, it's the same thing all over again. It doesn't matter what arguments are brought for reasonable death penalties, that would not allow zerging (hell, I proposed the removal of portalling and Alt-F4...), some people want it real bad in the game. Most of them are hardly affected by it, I know from my own experience, in the 80s I didn't die but 2-3 times, all of them semi-intentional while experimenting stuff after levelling up, so I'm hardly affected.

It's the same irrational fear that somehow, n00bs will reach near the throne of nolifers, when one satisfaction of those nolifers is the superiority they can achieve, even if it's only in a game...

Also important to notice is that the huge penalty is there by design, to compensate for the lack of true endgame content and prevent you to reach 100 too quickly and then leave the game, because there's nothing more you could do (if you're like me and don't enjoy alts...) once you reach the max level. Yes, it's but my opinion, I don't have transcripts from GGG's meeting on the issue obviously, yet I think it is highly transparent.