Question on full party IIQ bonus and it's effects on item drops compared to the solo player

"

Zhatan a écrit :

The real benefit comes when you combine it with IIR.

irrelevant post based on the question put forth.

"

velrac a écrit :

Now in my mind and from what I have experienced in my limited grouping experience it appears to me that because of such a large bonus to increased item quantity for parties it causes parties to also gain a bonus to increased item rarity. It always appears to me when I'm grouped that many more rares,uniques and higher tiered orbs drop and by putting my thoughts down on paper it appears my observations are backed up by the math as well.

rarity has no effect on currency dropping, nor what type it ultimately is. this is purely the effect of having such high quantity.

if you increase the amount of currency dropping (IIQ) then it follows that you will see rarer orbs etc. more often.

this also somewhat explains why it appears there is an IIR bonus to the party. you essentially get "more chances to win" much like you do in a lottery if you buy more tickets.

"

ualac a écrit :

"

velrac a écrit :

Now in my mind and from what I have experienced in my limited grouping experience it appears to me that because of such a large bonus to increased item quantity for parties it causes parties to also gain a bonus to increased item rarity. It always appears to me when I'm grouped that many more rares,uniques and higher tiered orbs drop and by putting my thoughts down on paper it appears my observations are backed up by the math as well.

rarity has no effect on currency dropping, nor what type it ultimately is. this is purely the effect of having such high quantity.

if you increase the amount of currency dropping (IIQ) then it follows that you will see rarer orbs etc. more often.

this also somewhat explains why it appears there is an IIR bonus to the party. you essentially get "more chances to win" much like you do in a lottery if you buy more tickets.

With the section I bolded is what I'm actually trying to find the answer to yet I personally lack the math skills to figure out. With having such a large increase to the number of items dropping causing more chances for magic/rare/unique items to drop what is the percentage increase to IIR. Because as you put it by buying more lotto tickets that increases the odds of winning which as I look at it in game as:
IIQ= buying more lotto tickets
IIR=increasing the odds of winning the lotto

Say for each 50 point increase to IIQ how many points of inherent IIR is built into that 50 point increase to IIQ. Or is the answer simply unobtainable for us to figure out with what we know of the game mechanics concerning item drop percentages?

@OP - there is a zero percent change to IIR. You will see MORE rare items, but the percent of rares versus whites will stay precisely the same. Just because you see MORE rares as a result of more items doesn't mean your rarity is increased by anything.

IIR is where you go from 45% of the items being rare to 50% of the items being rare.

EX: Say you do a run of a zone with 0 IIQ and 10 items drop. If your rarity chances were 10% then 1 of the items should be rare.

Now do that same run of a zone with 250 IIQ and 25 items drop. 2.5 of those items will be rare, but there is a ZERO increase in your IIR stat and the percent of rares is EXACTLY the ame as when you had 0 IIQ. You just got MORE TOTAL items, thus MORE TOTAL rare items, but the EXACT SAME percent of items were rare.

"

velrac a écrit :

"

ualac a écrit :

this also somewhat explains why it appears there is an IIR bonus to the party. you essentially get "more chances to win" much like you do in a lottery if you buy more tickets.

With the section I bolded is what I'm actually trying to find the answer to yet I personally lack the math skills to figure out. With having such a large increase to the number of items dropping causing more chances for magic/rare/unique items to drop what is the percentage increase to IIR.

it's not a direct % increase, but more a perceptive % increase to IIR and in this case (perceptive) the maths may actually be pretty straight forward.

each % increase in IIQ would seem like the same % increase on your current IIR.

for example if you double the amount of drops (100% IIQ) then the effect would be you might see twice as many 'rare' items. so if your current Rarity is 36% then doubling your drops may make it seem more like 72% (increased 36 by 100%). likewise having 50% IIQ would make your current 36% feel like 54% (increased 36 by 50%)

of course it wouldnt actually increase the value.. but it would feel as though it did.

You get a third more loot per player.

"

CrystalisQualinthi a écrit :

@OP - there is a zero percent change to IIR. You will see MORE rare items, but the percent of rares versus whites will stay precisely the same. Just because you see MORE rares as a result of more items doesn't mean your rarity is increased by anything.

IIR is where you go from 45% of the items being rare to 50% of the items being rare.

EX: Say you do a run of a zone with 0 IIQ and 10 items drop. If your rarity chances were 10% then 1 of the items should be rare.

Now do that same run of a zone with 250 IIQ and 25 items drop. 2.5 of those items will be rare, but there is a ZERO increase in your IIR stat and the percent of rares is EXACTLY the ame as when you had 0 IIQ. You just got MORE TOTAL items, thus MORE TOTAL rare items, but the EXACT SAME percent of items were rare.

Perhaps I just have to admit it to myself that I'm to much of a "block head" and I'm not understanding this correctly. But I look at it like this:
I see raffle tickets being sold. There is only 100 raffle tickets and I buy one(0%IIQ) which gives me a 1 in a 100 chance to win(better then normal item dropping). Pay day comes and I decide to increase my odds of winning so I buy 9 more raffle tickets(100%IIQ) therefore increasing my odds of winning from 1 in a 100(0%IIR) to a 1 in 10(+10%IIR) chance(better then normal item dropping). Even though my chance to win per ticket is still only a 1 in a 100 chance(better then normal item dropping) my chances of actually winning(better then normal item dropping) has increased.

i can tell u this and i hope its explains stuff for u
my iiq is 114 iir is 270

solo map
2-3 inventory,s full of yellows ( rarely 4 but happens )
1-2 higer lvl orbs ( mostly alcs / chaos )

2 player map
1-2 inventory,s full of yellows ( almost never 3 )
1-2 higer lvl orbs ( mostly 1 per run sins u split )

3 player map
1-2 inventory,s full of yellows (never 3 )
1-4 higer lvl orbs ( mostly 1 per run sins u split )

4 players
0.5-1.5 inventory,s full of yellows ( almost never 2 )
1-2 higer lvl orbs ( mostly 1 per run sins u split )

this is wen i run whit a groupe that lets me last hit all rare,s / blou,s / bosses

i generally hate to party
i am realy picky about the players i party whit
no culling-strike user ( totaly waste of time )
also my party has the rule ( 6s /5-6l and 1ex/mirror gets sold and split in the party )
unique loot is named ( exception anything above 10 ex worth )
yellows named ( if item drops thats a upgrade to some one u must sell it to them 50% cheaper )
tough we generaly give it for free

My understanding, based on the information in the mechanics thread is this (leaving out monster bonuses):

IIQ comes from player bonuses, party bonuses and map bonuses. These bonuses stack with themselves in an additive manner, and stack with each other in a multiplicative manner.

IIR comes from player bonuses and map bonuses. These bonuses stack with themselves in an additive manner, and stack with each other in a multiplicative manner.

Conceptually, if you increase the quantity of what drops while keeping the rarity chance equal you will see a net increase in white, blue, yellow and orange items this can make it seem like adding party members adds iir, it doesn't.


For the purposes of this we dont need to know the actual base drop rate, just how IIR and IIQ impact it so:

Let Q equal how much more stuff you will see drop
Let R equal how much more magic rare and unique stuff you will see drop


Q = (1+Player_IIQ)(1+Map_IIQ)(1+Party_IIQ)
R = Q(1+Player_IIR)(1+Map_IIR)

Maximize Q if youre hunting for currency
Maximize R if youre hunting for uniques


Remember to keep percentages in decimal form (100%= 1, 23% = 0.23)


Disclaimer: this is based off the mechanics thread, not all of the info was explicitly confirmed by GGG_Mark or whoever else posts there.

So its not a matter of IIR or IIQ being flat out better than the other, rather its based on how much of each you have working at any given time... You can use the equations to maximize whatever youre looking for if you are ever faced with a decision between picking some amount of IIQ over some IIR...



Simple case of why there are complaints about party mechanics as they stand:
If no one is wearing IIR or IIQ:

One additional party member means 1.5 times more currency and 1.5 times more rares/uniques, shared two ways so each person gets 3/4ths of what they would get solo.

Five additional party members means 3.5 times more currency and 3.5 times more rares/uniques, shared 6 ways so each person gets 7/12ths of what they would get solo.

"

Aegon a écrit :

Five additional party members means 3.5 times more currency and 3.5 times more rares/uniques, shared 6 ways so each person gets 7/12ths of what they would get solo.

this

if everyone has the same MF stats... then they will get 3.5/5 of what the would get running 6 maps in a row


imagine you have a map with 6 people
now imagine running 6 identical maps and superimposing all the loot for all 6

the group benefits from faster kill speed which makes up for the reduced drops per player.