[3.9] Plague Assassin Venom Guy (Gyre)/ 17 Mil+ DPS / 6 Mil+ Shaper DPS / All Content / Any Map Mods

Dying Sun or Sin's Rebirth?

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BzyxXx a écrit :

Dying Sun or Sin's Rebirth?

I have diffrent ascendrys then these, can I change them somehow? I have: 1. Noxious Strike 2. Opportunistic 3. Mistwalker 4.Toxic delivery (this is the one thats diffrent for me).

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fichi a écrit :

so do I need to make -8 to mana cost of skills craft right sry if It says in the guide but I know its expensive to get/make

it's no longer a 2ex craft, iirc -8-9 reduced mana craft is 4c now.

I respecced my Saboteur into this and so far its just awesome, really nice build :)

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Bromeek a écrit :

It feels more powerful though. Before the change to this build, Plaguebearer single-handedly carried this build through all bossfights. I keep it at max stacks (1350k), and I reset it -> insta max when I get to 1000-1100k. I keep reseting it every 4-6 seconds, and this way it feels, powerful. I can't belive it's only 125k.

It feels more powerful because it is powerful... at lower tiers. But the math is the math unless there is some hidden mechanic I don't know of. If you turn on PB at MAX stacks, you are doing 12% of it per second. If you can sustain it, then you still at max are doing 12% of it per second.

I think everyone underestimates how little HP monsters really have and how flat the bosses HP are for the first 10 map tiers. The monster HP scaling and difficulty really is dependant on the map modifiers you roll. If you attempted all maps as white maps, you would see a pretty linerally scaled HP pool until guardians and the HPs of most of the 1-10 tier maps are pretty close, with the same 400% modifier to life (I don't think we know that base life is, only what the scaling is, so some bosses are still tankier than others)

125k per second at lower tiers is just powerful when they are probably at like 600k total hp.

Guardians have like 4x more hp than other bosses (something like 1600% hp compared to the normal 400% hp of lower bosses). I forget the math of how they smoothed the boss curve out, but it's a combination of more hp and more resistances in conjunction with the map modifiers getting stronger on your alched maps and the more dangerous modifiers that scale the bosses hp + damage.

I think shaper has been estimated at like 20 million hp, but since you can't roll modifiers for his encounter - his HP is always the same for all fights, and is why it's the better encounter to test damage. Try using just plague bearer with him and I am guessing you will not feel it is as powerful. I would estimate it would take about 2 minutes to kill him with this skill (if you could leave it on for 2 minutes).

It's also why when posting damage videos, if you really want to get a feel to compare it to other builds, you have to do 3rd phase comparison for shaper. Get shaper to the 3rd phase, let him regen his health up, and then try to dps him down in one shot. A 6 million dps build will kill him in like 4 seconds. You'll see builds in the 6 million+ range calculate damage in "shapers per second". (It's also why I am hard on the DPS calculations for this build, because it's definitely not 17 million / 6 million, otherwise, you'd kill shaper in like 3.5 seconds in the above experiment - but a video here could prove me wrong!).

With PB You are storing up a flat 125k (or more) damage that can be sustained, and it feels more powerful with combined with poison because poison needs ramp-up time to hit its peak DPS. It feels powerful vs mobs because it's an Rightous Fire like aura (whatever your max duration time is, that is how much time you need to sustain poison to hit peak damage).

However, I guarantee if they had a Plague Bearer equivilant that worked with a normal on hit power, you would hate this ability, because the on-hit dealing instant damage would feel better if just applied directly. Basically, Plague Bearer ironically only feels real good because it's paired with poison.

Poison has it's own calculation issues in that you need to do damage for the entire duration of poisons to hit max DPS. Think of it this way - if I was somehow able to make poison duration 999 seconds, I would never hit max dps unless I stood stacking poisons for 999 seconds with no breaks, no movement, hitting with every projectile, keeping max flasks up, etc. However, I'd be doing billions of damage and at some point, this would be just so OP it wouldn't matter.

So even though making the poison DPS duration longer makes this build infinitely stronger (because you can stack the poisons), it takes your full DPS duration to hit MAX dps, which is whatever POB is currently calcuating as max.

So if you get your DPS to 6 million in POB, then you are in reality only doing 6 million if you can sustain those conditions for the full duration (which you can't). It takes ramp up time to do so, flasks won't last for the full 16 seconds or whatever yoru poison duration is, vaal skills will end before you can hit your max duration, etc. In my above example of 999 duration, if I was to check off Caralto's signature, it would calculate this flask effect for the full 999 seconds, because POB doesn't take into account the flask length.

For a lot of these poison builds, it's about 10-16 seconds or so. It's just the nature of how ramping dots work, and the scaling of damage, and the timing window of these abilities. If you can get more DPS up front, you can lower the poison duration window, but at some point, it starts to become an on-hit build than a damage over time build. Compared to like an on hit build, where if you can get 1 million per hit, it's happening instantly, and thus, most of the time, the calculations are more correct since you can get these hits in before timed effects expire.

A longer duration though gives you a lot more of a window to stack and build up a lot of dps, as long you can get the hits in, which is why this build has like 5 variables to juggle (attack speed, damage on hit with phys + chaos, the actual poison damage, poison length, speed of poison ticks, resistance modifiers, etc).

Again - all that matters with these builds and skills is that you can do all content, and this build can do all the content, and dots are a lot of fun for some people.

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fichi a écrit :

I have diffrent ascendrys then these, can I change them somehow? I have: 1. Noxious Strike 2. Opportunistic 3. Mistwalker 4.Toxic delivery (this is the one thats diffrent for me).

I believe you can respec ascendancy nodes with 5 respec points, but you then need to run the Lab to get the new points to spend again. However, if you have all the required gear, Opportunistic will probably be pretty close in damage against bosses that are a single enemy (you get a 20% more modifier that is not calculated in that scenario by POB when near a single rare or unique mob) but Ambush and Assassinate overall is better and worth respeccing to.

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wakasm a écrit :

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fichi a écrit :

I have diffrent ascendrys then these, can I change them somehow? I have: 1. Noxious Strike 2. Opportunistic 3. Mistwalker 4.Toxic delivery (this is the one thats diffrent for me).

I believe you can respec ascendancy nodes with 5 respec points, but you then need to run the Lab to get the new points to spend again. However, if you have all the required gear, Opportunistic will probably be pretty close in damage against bosses that are a single enemy (you get a 20% more modifier that is not calculated in that scenario by POB when near a single rare or unique mob) but Ambush and Assassinate overall is better and worth respeccing to.

Yes. 5 respect points each ascendancy point. And no, You dont need again make lab. If You want change ascendancy from hmm assassin to saboteur then You need to do lab again.

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Lunartuna a écrit :

Lol the whole time streaming this build so far, my twitch chat in stream labs obs was bugged and not working.. ugh. I couldn't see if anyone was saying anything!

Working now!

lol wondered cause i came in a few times and chatted with no response so figured you had no mic :P

Hey there guys, I'm using loczek's original Venom Gyre build with great success, and I was looking to craft a dagger version of my claw. I was wondering if anyone has done any extensive testing about whether it is better to roll the flat chaos damage with fossils, or craft the flat phys damage?



Thanks in advance!