Synthesis power creep vs Atlas follow up?

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klokwerkaos a écrit :

If you're any sort of caster, this can be an issue because you're health realistically caps around 7k ish.

I happen to like casters, i find melee folk boring and simplistic in virtually every game, and not every caster build is CI viable.

You can pretty much use CI with every aster.
Life isn't everything, you can build a balanced character that uses defenses enough to survive betrayal encounters, and is a challenge to you apparently.

If you don't want to try, that's fine, but please don't pretend that you have done everything you could and that GGG should add new challenges to the game, because you are just ignoring some of them.


Now, would adding new interesting encounters be bad for the game ?
If done properly ( not gating x, y and z behind them ), I don't see why it would, it would likely just be good.

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Fruz a écrit :

"

klokwerkaos a écrit :

If you're any sort of caster, this can be an issue because you're health realistically caps around 7k ish.

I happen to like casters, i find melee folk boring and simplistic in virtually every game, and not every caster build is CI viable.

You can pretty much use CI with every aster.
Life isn't everything, you can build a balanced character that uses defenses enough to survive betrayal encounters, and is a challenge to you apparently.

If you don't want to try, that's fine, but please don't pretend that you have done everything you could and that GGG should add new challenges to the game, because you are just ignoring some of them.


Now, would adding new interesting encounters be bad for the game ?
If done properly ( not gating x, y and z behind them ), I don't see why it would, it would likely just be good.

You're assuming that I've died even once to a syndicate this league. I have not.

Please don't assume because you think you know more than everyone that is new that you know everything they know about their own play experience.

Could you theoretically build anything for CI? Well sure, duh. That doesn't mean that it will be viable for the full structure of content laid out. All it takes to spec CI is one passive point. That said, it doesn't take a genius to know that not every build and permutation will be viable for the whole spectrum of content available. Additionally, technically everything is viable if... you are good enough to never take any damage ever. I don't know too many players that can boast that for an entire league, perhaps you are one?

Please spare me the disrespect of talking down at me like I'm an idiot.

Feel free to disagree, but talking down is rude, and unacceptable in polite discourse, not to mention it lacks class.

If all you're interested in is nitpicking over cherry picked notions while ignoring the thrust of the content of the message in the OP, I really can't be bothered further. We can all nit pick each other's nonsense all day and that gets exactly nowhere productive.

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klokwerkaos a écrit :

You're assuming that I've died even once to a syndicate this league. I have not.

Please don't assume because you think you know more than everyone that is new that you know everything they know about their own play experience.

I am not assuming anything I think, you literally said :

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klokwerkaos a écrit :

I can't entirely ignore betrayal, meaning, I'm kind of forced to play it and I don't like that

Since there are many leagues from the past fully integrated into the main game and that you have to deal with those too ( they have been nerfed a lot of course, exiles and nemesis for example, bloodlines can be dangerous but nothing too bad ), the only reason that I can think of is :

You don't like dealing with the syndicate because you are having troubles dealing with the syndicate.

Or is there another reason ?

Some things that you said after are confirming my guess too :

"

klokwerkaos a écrit :

Because of the forced nature of intervention and how rippy it is.

Performances problem are a different story of course, people purely complaining because of that are entirely right to do so in my opinion, but that does not seem to be the case here.

"

klokwerkaos a écrit :

Could you theoretically build anything for CI? Well sure, duh. That doesn't mean that it will be viable for the full structure of content laid out. All it takes to spec CI is one passive point. That said, it doesn't take a genius to know that not every build and permutation will be viable for the whole spectrum of content available. Additionally, technically everything is viable if... you are good enough to never take any damage ever. I don't know too many players that can boast that for an entire league, perhaps you are one?

I obviously meant that you can go CI with pretty much any caster with an optimized setup, to take on all content ( although some spells will have a much harder time than others doing so ).
You can even easily go CI on an iron will build using Geofri's Sanctuary and the shaper's gloves !

"

klokwerkaos a écrit :

Please spare me the disrespect of talking down at me like I'm an idiot.

I'm just quoting there to point out the irony, because of what you just said before.
I didn't mean to talk down to you, if you are having troubles dealing with the syndicate ( which really seems to be the case ), it means that you could likely balance your build to have more survivability.
Now, if you're talking about only 8 mods corrupted t15~16, then yeah the syndicate is going to be rippy ... like many other things out there, which seems fine to me, as those are the highest tiers.

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We can all nit pick each other's nonsense all day and that gets exactly nowhere productive.

After re-reading some of your posts i realized, that you dont have even the basics down about the game. Which is not your fault, it takes some time. So i agree, that the further discussion is meaningless.

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I can't really bring myself to understand the complaints of the other guy. his last post just seems like he's ignoring anything I said to dig his heels in, which is fine, I guess, not everyone is going to agree, but I appreciate the healthy look and perspective on the subject you bring.

Im not ignoring what you are saying. But your opinion about the game feels like a general marketing view point of an outsider. You dont state ingame facts. You just talk about me being against the grand evolution and wanting the game for myself, and repeat that over and over again. GGG decided to discard some of its old playerbase for the sake of catering for casuals. They changed from being a high class restaurant into being a fastfood stall. Things that had flavour, all taste like ketchup now. I have the right to be mad.

Some information:

"

Facts are, slower clear speed melee with more health will make the game even easier, rather than playing squishy casters. It also makes the game slower, which I'm not for, particularly because leagues have an expiration date.

That is maybe true for Juggernaut (and maybe champ), but besides that every other melee class dies just as pathetically fast as a caster. A lot of pepole tend to forget that Juggernaut =/= Melee. You are stating facts you cant possibly back up with your experience. If what you said would be true, i would not complain about melee. But there is no pros for melee. Only cons. I hope you remember my quote about clear speed problems. Which is a bad design no matter how i look at it. Yet GGG priorized the spell rework, because it is more popular. Some pepole still defending melee, because Molten Strike jug is fine. Maybe the max res nerf changed that opinion a little bit ;).

EDIT: Just checked, after the idiotic ES buff, Jugs gone ES and switched from Nebuloch to Howa because of the max res nerf. Smart. Melee is still viable YAY!

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if you don't kill them before they can attack, certain packs just equal dead immediately, and even then corrupted blood stacks can wipe you unless you're lucky enough to vaal a jewel properly.

You can remove that with a staunching flask. And it can kill casters too.

@OP: yes, this game has gotten too easy and there’s been way too much powercreep. But this is directly tied to a horrible balance crisis that has persisted for a long time.

If we play the builds GGG is pointing us towards with giant flashing arrows, we breeze through everything. If we try to play with any of the other skills, mechanics, uniques, ascendancies, etc. that haven’t been revisited in a while, the game’s still relatively challenging (but more grindy and economy-focused than actually truly difficult).

So the result is that most of the game’s content at any given time is outdated and irrelevent, and our REAL build choices are quite a bit more limited than it seems on the surface. Trying to maintain old builds in Standard, which I like to do in addition to leagues, is a nightmare.

We need to start recognizing that our build choice is akin to selecting a difficulty mode in such an unbalanced game. While I don’t blame any player for choosing the best builds, I’d suggest trying something different if they want a challenge.

In the end, however, this is on GGG’s shoulders. They ought to do a better job of balancing playstyles and specific builds/gear/skills/ascendancies (which I recognize they’re slowly working on) without contradicting their own efforts by prescribing the next meta through huge powercreep every league.

Once they prioritize that, then difficulty can also be adjusted across the board.

Standard disclaimer that perfect balance is impossible and undesirable, but given how insane the contrast between builds is right now I think a ton of work can be done before we get anywhere close to being “too” balanced and making the game too homogenized. That shouldn’t be a credible fear at the moment.

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Motopsycho a écrit :

"

We can all nit pick each other's nonsense all day and that gets exactly nowhere productive.

After re-reading some of your posts i realized, that you dont have even the basics down about the game. Which is not your fault, it takes some time. So i agree, that the further discussion is meaningless.

"

I can't really bring myself to understand the complaints of the other guy. his last post just seems like he's ignoring anything I said to dig his heels in, which is fine, I guess, not everyone is going to agree, but I appreciate the healthy look and perspective on the subject you bring.

Im not ignoring what you are saying. But your opinion about the game feels like a general marketing view point of an outsider. You dont state ingame facts. You just talk about me being against the grand evolution and wanting the game for myself, and repeat that over and over again. GGG decided to discard some of its old playerbase for the sake of catering for casuals. They changed from being a high class restaurant into being a fastfood stall. Things that had flavour, all taste like ketchup now. I have the right to be mad.

Some information:

"

Facts are, slower clear speed melee with more health will make the game even easier, rather than playing squishy casters. It also makes the game slower, which I'm not for, particularly because leagues have an expiration date.

That is maybe true for Juggernaut (and maybe champ), but besides that every other melee class dies just as pathetically fast as a caster. A lot of pepole tend to forget that Juggernaut =/= Melee. You are stating facts you cant possibly back up with your experience. If what you said would be true, i would not complain about melee. But there is no pros for melee. Only cons. I hope you remember my quote about clear speed problems. Which is a bad design no matter how i look at it. Yet GGG priorized the spell rework, because it is more popular. Some pepole still defending melee, because Molten Strike jug is fine. Maybe the max res nerf changed that opinion a little bit ;).

EDIT: Just checked, after the idiotic ES buff, Jugs gone ES and switched from Nebuloch to Howa because of the max res nerf. Smart. Melee is still viable YAY!

"

if you don't kill them before they can attack, certain packs just equal dead immediately, and even then corrupted blood stacks can wipe you unless you're lucky enough to vaal a jewel properly.

You can remove that with a staunching flask. And it can kill casters too.

You're nitpicking and saying things I already know, albeit with less talking down. You're assuming however, i don't know these things. I do. Why do you think all my characters have staunching flasks in their equipment? Is it because I don't know about this?

Come on now.

It feels like you want to assert some kind of dominance here, to show that you're better some how, or that your e-peen is more savage and it's really not worth it.

I'm a player, you're a player. Perhaps you know some things I don't, perhaps I know some things you don't. The game is big enough where there's always more things to discover. But lets get over the dong measuring, OK? it's a waste of time, and pointless, because it's a friggin video game.

In my main game, warframe, I run a large clan, have literally everything in the game done and all the achievements and a manual to teach others how to do the game that I wrote. I still learn new things from new players sometimes. Having a little humility to appreciate their perspective and understand where they are coming from while treating them with a little dignity can go a long way.

If you want to address any of the crux of my suggestion about content that's great, but I'm not here to argue about how practical literally everything I've mentioned is. I have reasons why I mentioned it, that's all you need to digest. I can say @demon9675, actually addressed the concept, and even brought up a valid reason why it might not be great to push for more content (ie, it is a reasonable priority to fix what is there before adding more) while not stepping on me in the process. We could, in theory, then debate the merits and flaws of adding content vs fixing content on a case by case basis.

For example my counter argument might be that different builds have different places in the spectrum of viability and that at no point will everything be well balanced enough to satisfy 10% let alone half the community at large because by the time you finish the last rework the first one is out of date. On the other hand, some things may be desperately out of date and need serious attention (then again, those might be the builds you enjoy because they are an intentional gimp you choose, so it might be serving a purpose in that regard as well). My point is though, these are how debates of points work, you present ideas, rather than try to assert dominance or discredit someone.

If I say corrupted blood can wipe and interventions cause laggy death, that doesn't mean I'm suffering laggy death and corrupted blood wipes, it means I'm aware of the issues and bringing attention to them in support of an argument. In all likelihood, I've already figured out a workaround if I already took out uber elder in my first month and a half, yeah?

I'm not a super genious, and I'm not special and I don't know everything about the game, but I've got the basics yo. At least enough to get that far. Just because I reference something, doesn't mean it's an issue for me personally, but that it's an issue to be aware of that centers on the focus of the argument.

If you really insist on continuing to interact on the thread, please do the favor of A) treating any opposition with dignity and respect, B) attacking the argument with ideas/facts rather than the person.