[3.5] CheeQu's CoC Ice Nova Assassin - Up to 7m Shaper DPS + Amazing Clearspeed [In-Depth Guide]

Hello guys.

Already wield a Cospri in main hand, and I'm torn between these two for my off hand.




What do you think would yield higher dps ?

I thought I wanted to post my build and some notes/thoughts, especially for the newer players who want to try this (amazing) build, but are confused about a few key issues. This is based on my own experience and feel of the character working through this build for the past 3 leagues, but not through any maths or real knowledge about the game. I also very closely follow the original build guide as it is currently, and will refer back to it frequently.

In Betrayal league, I stopped somwhere between Stage 1: The Core and Stage 2: The Overpowered. Killed Shaper, couldn't kill Uber Elder.

In Synthesis league, due to a lucky drop of a double Anger Watcher's Eye from my first Red Elder, I was able to fund the Unnatural Instinct + 2 MOTM version. This felt amazing, with the extra movement speed, and I was eventually able to take Uber Elder down (https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2285205/page/334#p21892244).

In Legion league, I now have a completed Life-based Occultist version, as I had already played Assassin for the past 2 leagues, and wanted to try something different.

Current Pastebin: https://pastebin.com/qb3VtnmG (n.b. the 2nd 'Frozen Trail' between the Mind Over Matter and Elemental Equilibrium nodes is actually the Militant Faith Timeless Jewel as linked, further discussion below).

I started off intending to do a completely different build (ES/Bane), but decided (too late) that this was the wrong time to start on an ES based character given the recent nerfs (I have never played ES before), but this was a good learning experience about what ES is/isn't.

I then took inspiration from this (https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2310546/page/1) and reworked into an ES based version of CoC Ice Nova. However, there were a lot of issues with this - my ES was still too low (extremely squishy) and getting higher amounts of ES was too expensive for very little gain; I had a terrible time managing attribute requirements/resistances, and couldn't make any meaningful upgrades (e.g. Pandemonius, 14% CDR) due to this restriction.

I eventually decided to change back to a life based version, as close as possible to the original version as I could, and this was the best decision ever. During this league, I have tried all of:
-Lycosidae vs no Lycosidae (instead, using a different shield to get more ES/attributes/resistances and attack speed), with the new Precision Gem
-Dual wield Cospri's vs Lycosidae
-Unnatural Instinct + MOTMx2 vs regular
-Militant Faith Timeless Jewel
-Ring with 'Shock nearby enemies for 4 seconds when you Focus' (I never actually got around to getting this in the past 2 leagues)

Here are my thoughts on these issues.

Attack Speed and CDR
This part is for players new to this build, but is crucial to this build. Any changes to your build that you make has to respect this point, otherwise you may have loss of DPS without even knowing it. Essentially, as per original post, and this link (https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/aasx40/cyclone_coc_discharge_proc_rate_investigation/), you wanted a Cyclone Attacks per Second of 3.0 or slightly less without any CDR, OR an Attacks per Second of 3.75 or slightly less (between 3.7 - 3.75) with at least 14% increased CDR.

However, due to Legion's Cyclone changes, the ApS numbers have just automatically doubled. So, ApS of 6.0 without CDR, or between 7.4 - 7.5 ApS with CDR. My current ApS is 7.41. I can't offer proof or maths to back this up, but upon the feel of the character compared to previously, this works.

The way you achieve this is via different combinations of Increased Attack Speed on Cospri's (I have at least 3 Cospri's with different IAS values from 9 - 14 to fiddle around with), the Coordination node (this is vital, if you wanna use the 14% CDR), potentially a jewel with 8% increased attack speed with swords, and potentially increased attack speed from a shield (if you choose not to use Lycosidae).

Also note, the ApS in the in game display can sometimes slightly differ from the ApS in PoB. This caused a lot of headaches (especially when the PoB numbers slightly exceeded the breakpoint), but I eventually decided to just go with in-game values for my sanity.

Lycosidae vs no Lycosidae
I was fiddling around with this when I was still ES based, as I needed more ES and attributes and was trying to get more attack speed via the shield. Without Lycosidae, my Main Hand Chance to Hit was sitting at about 87% (with Precision gem). (Lycosidae gives 100% chance to hit, obviously).

Conclusion: Much worse without Lycosidae. This was fine for trash monsters, but when it came to single target bosses, I was not hitting enough to crit, and this resulted in massive losses of DPS. Now, I don't know if this is just because I am an Occultist, and if you were an Assassin with a much higher crit chance, whether this can be mitigated?

Dual wield vs no dual wield
With the amount of people posting their dual wield builds, I felt I actually had to try this. I only went as far as dual wielding Cospri's, and never tried a crafted sword version.

I faced a number of problems with this:

First was the Lycosidae problem as above. I was not hitting enough and had massive losses in DPS.

Second was the fact that there isn't any hard maths to follow in regards to how much display ApS is now needed, and whether CDR was needed or not. Furthermore I did not understand how APS worked with dual wield, given that each sword is supposed to give you an attack speed that is local to the sword, but dual wielding also gives you overall more attack speed, and I didn't know how this factored into display APS.

Then you have the issue about whether each Cospri's had it's own cooldown or not.

Conclusion: Did not work for me. My Frostbolts were casting for even less than a regular 7 ApS version (even though there is one video here that shows the person having 3xtimes the amount of Frostbolts with this version), and I was not critting enough. I am not sure if the few recent posts here reporting that they are not doing enough damage to bosses with the dual wield version is due to this issue.

I quickly swapped back to the Lycosidae version with 14% CDR after the above.

Unnatural Instinct + 2xMOTM
Unnatural Instinct is so much cheaper this league compared to last league (2-3ex vs 11+ex), and there is a reason for this. Three of the nodes just below where Unnatural Instinct is supposed to sit were changed from Critical Strike Multiplier nodes to Global Accuracy nodes.

I tried this and found that I had less health (because your whole tree needs to change), less Crit Multi, but more movement speed. The caveat is that my Occultist version needs more passive points elsewhere that isn't required by the Assassin, and this probably explains the health loss, but the damage loss did not feel worth it.

Unfortunately, I did not test whether the 3 Global Accuracy nodes were enough to offset the lack of Lycosidae as I was so disappointed with this that I swapped away from it immediately.

Conclusion: If the Global Accuracy nodes are enough to offset the lack of Lycosidae, which then allows for dual wield, then perhaps this could be worth it, assuming maths is worked out. However, for a plebian like me, not worth it.

Militant Faith Timeless Jewel (High Templar Dominus)
I tried this based on the suggestion of one of the posters (who was explaining the dual wield version) here, and found it to be amazing (to the point that I sacrificed a few health nodes to get it). Socketed between the Mind over Matter and Elemental Equilibrium nodes, it changes both those nodes into Inner Conviction nodes, each of which gives 3% "more" (not increased) spell damage per Power Charge.

(n.b.: https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Stat#more_vs_increased)

Further more, I was able to shore up my resistances with one of the mods on the jewel, and also got the Increased Area Damage mod with it as well.

Now, this may only be worthwhile because I'm playing an Occultist and have 7 max Power Charges (I don't know how many an Assassin gets up to), and the Spell Damage nodes at the start of the Witch tree also contributes to the Devotion levels that the jewel needs.

Conclusion: I loved this, and this allowed me to feel that my DPS was on par with my previous Assassin with Unnatural Instinct and MOTM. Unfortunately, no numbers to back this up. Shoring up my resistance was also vital, because this brings us to the next point.

Ring with 'Shock nearby enemies for 4 seconds when you Focus'
Because I was able to cover my resistance elsewhere, I was able to get the appropriate Elder ring with the space to get this mod.

(For those that are unclear, this mod gives you an additional Focus ability on your toolbar that you can use).

This, again, felt like a massive significant upgrade in damage to my character.

Original poster states that Shock gives 20% more (not increased damage), however I can't find any specific site/information that backs this up.

Conclusion: Very worth it, but no specific hard evidence to back this up.

This was the point after which I took down Uber Elder.

Other stuff to note
1) I am still using a Precision Gem for the increased crit chance, given that I am not an Assassin. There was always one empty gem slot in this build (if you follow the original build) that you could do anything you wanted with.

2) The 6th slot in your chest was also another optional slot. Last season,I ran Fortify in the 6th link because of ease of play and still had more than enough damage. This season I'm using Power Charge on Crit for the increased crit chance, increased ease to get Power Charges (especially when fighting bosses), and more damage per Power Charges. Haven't tried comparing this to Concentrated Effect.

Final thoughts
I hope this helps, at least for the entry-level people who want to get into this build.

Also, given that I love this build so much, being able to play it on a Witch was also very fun and satisfying. Try Bronn's Lithe Skin for a skin transfer onto Loreweave for a good look :)

Hello all, I have been running this build for some time now and I feel like i have min maxed enough for my liking and can share info and answer questions. All content completed easily.

My PoB: https://pastebin.com/MmAwjXzZ





Questions i have gotten in game or questions i see frequently in this forum post:

Loreweave vs Carcass - I have both 6L a good for this build loreweave and a perfect DMG/Life Carcass. The short answer is both are viable the rolls on the loreweave matter a lot more and loreweave is slightly better if boss killing is your focus where as carcass is better at low map farming legions due to the area increase on Vaal Ice Nova.

Is Vaal Ice Nova Worth? I used it for a lot of maps and honestly I feel like it isn't. If you want to farm low tier maps and want it to kill the legion with no effort then sure go for it. That being said you don't need it to clear legions and your 2-2.5ex increased cost over 21/23 regular ice nova can go somewhere else.

You don't have CDR and your only using one spell aren't you losing Casts?
I don't want to short answer this because its asked a lot. At 7.55 APS I am losing potential casts from my chest but the damage is already extreme overkill. And mind you that weakening my ice nova's casts and diluting half my CoC casts with a second spell that is not ice nova it is a damage loss.

-----------Examples-----------
Current set up 7.55 APS one spell:
Cap 6.67 casts per second 6.67 x 492k = 3,281k dps
Two spells: (ice nova 329k + Arc 201k) Lets do arc since i see multiple people here run it.
Avg spell cast 265k x 7.55 = 2,000k
You can argue to use a cold spell or a stronger spell in general
Two spells: (double ice nova)
329k x 7.55 = 2,549k
In conclusion the only result that could give me more DPS would be to gain CDR on my belt which would most likely make me drop the stygian vise losing the hypnotic jewels damage and losing significant life.

Which brings me to why do i use point blank? I experimented with a lot in this slot and ultimately decided:
Ice Nova - More consistent life leech but with a Disc Watchers eye it doesnt matter.
Onslaught - Decent for clear speed (through movement speed) but low to no value on bosses (you could get boss value if you have 2 gems in your chest through the ATK speed)
Culling Strike - Just more boss damage which is what i lean towards when choices seem low value.

CWDT set up - For awhile I was using what i believe to be the standard here CWDT 1 - Frost bomb 10 - ICall 3 - Golem 3, but this was bugging me for awhile because golem and IC just feel so low value. Recently i dropped immortal call and the golem moved some of my gems around removed unbound ailments from vortex and that allows me to add enlighten to Disc/Enfeeble, add Vaal Molten shell + Molten shell into CWDT and run precision. I havent been doing this long but i feel like its a huge boost to survival with molten shell and vaal molten shell.


If anyone has other questions you can feel free to hit me up and ill respond or answer to this post.


Edit: Replaced Point blank with Culling strike same reasoning damage is overkill so lack of any options that matter so went for convenience.

"

crushedguava a écrit :

I was going to pull specific things out of your post to quote to but it was a lot so apologies for not quoting what im refrencing.

Firstly Yes your APS info in regards to CDR is correct however. Why nerf you APS just because your not getting all your procs. You said about using slower cospris. Even if you are over the trigger APS just use the cospri's with the highest cold damage to spells. If you are way over the APS you can just put in a second gem for CoC to trigger.

The part about Lycosidae, Just use a tempered mind jewel it will give you 100% chance to hit and a crafted offhand is a lot more dps. For example my shaper ice nova avg hit is 491k if i remove my stat stick sword i lose 170k.

Lastly for me MOTM unnatural is worth it but like you said your not an assassin and i am so that comes down to available skill points.

"

Deonix_ a écrit :

I saved up the currency, I want to upgrade the build. Need more damage, more survival. What to upgrade next? Budget 20-30ex.

My gear:

Spoiler

Drop lyconsidae you can get 100% hit chance with tempered mind its a 1 chaos jewel the cheap replacement is a second cospri's the not so cheap replacement is a rare sword with the temple penetrates cold res mod crafted with spell damage and crit multi.



Craft some gloves the base with damage against chilled enemies mine costed me 3ex 120c with base and to fully craft.


beyond that you could craft a better elder ring with mana cost and damage.

"

The1ULost2 a écrit :

Hello all, I have been running this build for some time now and I feel like i have min maxed enough for my liking and can share info and answer questions. All content completed easily.

My PoB: https://pastebin.com/MmAwjXzZ

Spoiler

Questions i have gotten in game or questions i see frequently in this forum post:

Loreweave vs Carcass - I have both 6L a good for this build loreweave and a perfect DMG/Life Carcass. The short answer is both are viable the rolls on the loreweave matter a lot more and loreweave is slightly better if boss killing is your focus where as carcass is better at low map farming legions due to the area increase on Vaal Ice Nova.

Is Vaal Ice Nova Worth? I used it for a lot of maps and honestly I feel like it isn't. If you want to farm low tier maps and want it to kill the legion with no effort then sure go for it. That being said you don't need it to clear legions and your 2-2.5ex increased cost over 21/23 regular ice nova can go somewhere else.

You don't have CDR and your only using one spell aren't you losing Casts?
I don't want to short answer this because its asked a lot. At 7.55 APS I am losing potential casts from my chest but the damage is already extreme overkill. And mind you that weakening my ice nova's casts and diluting half my CoC casts with a second spell that is not ice nova it is a damage loss.

-----------Examples-----------
Current set up 7.55 APS one spell:
Cap 6.67 casts per second 6.67 x 492k = 3,281k dps
Two spells: (ice nova 329k + Arc 201k) Lets do arc since i see multiple people here run it.
Avg spell cast 265k x 7.55 = 2,000k
You can argue to use a cold spell or a stronger spell in general
Two spells: (double ice nova)
329k x 7.55 = 2,549k
In conclusion the only result that could give me more DPS would be to gain CDR on my belt which would most likely make me drop the stygian vise losing the hypnotic jewels damage and losing significant life.

Which brings me to why do i use point blank? I experimented with a lot in this slot and ultimately decided:
Ice Nova - More consistent life leech but with a Disc Watchers eye it doesnt matter.
Onslaught - Decent for clear speed (through movement speed) but low to no value on bosses (you could get boss value if you have 2 gems in your chest through the ATK speed)
Point blank - Just more boss damage which is what i lean towards when choices seem low value.

CWDT set up - For awhile I was using what i believe to be the standard here CWDT 1 - Frost bomb 10 - ICall 3 - Golem 3, but this was bugging me for awhile because golem and IC just feel so low value. Recently i dropped immortal call and the golem moved some of my gems around removed unbound ailments from vortex and that allows me to add enlighten to Disc/Enfeeble, add Vaal Molten shell + Molten shell into CWDT and run precision. I havent been doing this long but i feel like its a huge boost to survival with molten shell and vaal molten shell.


If anyone has other questions you can feel free to hit me up and ill respond or answer to this post.

Does point blank work with spells? I thought it only works with attacks.

"

z0ne a écrit :

Does point blank work with spells? I thought it only works with attacks.

Hmmm, too early to login right now for me but i believe it says projectiles i thought it was just the passive that specified attacks. But you could be right which just goes to show how little that gem slot doesnt matter if you are lol.

"

Does point blank work with spells? I thought it only works with attacks.

only attack can check in pob.

So with 14% ICRS and 7.5 APS means you are also casting your CoC spells 7.5 times per second as well?

How Does this change if you go to 15 APS? What happens if you put a 2nd spell gem into your 6L CoC?

How does 15 APS affect the spells proccing in your cospri(s)?

What changes when dual wielding cospris? Do you want to use 2 spell gems in cospris at 15aps as well?

"

ClakeyD a écrit :

So with 14% ICRS and 7.5 APS means you are also casting your CoC spells 7.5 times per second as well?

yes, I am unsure if PoE rounds your CDR but the math would be .15 / 1.14 = .13157 (This is where it could go multiple ways if they round up or down) but assuming they dont round 1 / .13157 = 7.6 casts per second if only one gem.

How Does this change if you go to 15 APS?

What happens if you put a 2nd spell gem into your 6L CoC? Each spell has a .15 second cooldown that rotates so doubling your max casts per second.

How does 15 APS affect the spells proccing in your cospri(s)?

The same way as in your chest they rotate with a .15 sec cooldown after each proc

What changes when dual wielding cospris? Do you want to use 2 spell gems in cospris at 15aps as well?

Its my understanding the APS of cyclone is counting both weapons and rotating each hit between your hands so for one cospri you divide your APS by 2