Got my first ever Shaper kill. I'm celebrating with a long-ass post about endgame difficulty.

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ironstove a écrit :

fights such as shaper/uber elder were bad design (Filling the arena with permanent DOTs) because they're speed/DPS tests on builds and not really mechanically challenging

There are both DPS/survivability checks AND mechanically challenging. Great design, want more of that.

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ironstove a écrit :

you can only play 4 different builds if you want to try to play everything in the game

There are much more then 4 builds capable of killing Uber Elder and there is thread on the forum where people discussion killing him with various builds.

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fwd a écrit :

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ironstove a écrit :

fights such as shaper/uber elder were bad design (Filling the arena with permanent DOTs) because they're speed/DPS tests on builds and not really mechanically challenging

There are both DPS/survivability checks AND mechanically challenging. Great design, want more of that.

"

ironstove a écrit :

you can only play 4 different builds if you want to try to play everything in the game

There are much more then 4 builds capable of killing Uber Elder and there is thread on the forum where people discussion killing him with various builds.

want a challenge?

Static Strike RT - go. if possible - do not use shaper idiocy aka stat sticks OR builds that are designed ONLY to do this one fight (aka 1hp build)

it might be possible to do Uber Elder with this setup but.. i would like to see it

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sidtherat a écrit :

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fwd a écrit :

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ironstove a écrit :

fights such as shaper/uber elder were bad design (Filling the arena with permanent DOTs) because they're speed/DPS tests on builds and not really mechanically challenging

There are both DPS/survivability checks AND mechanically challenging. Great design, want more of that.

"

ironstove a écrit :

you can only play 4 different builds if you want to try to play everything in the game

There are much more then 4 builds capable of killing Uber Elder and there is thread on the forum where people discussion killing him with various builds.

want a challenge?

Static Strike RT - go. if possible - do not use shaper idiocy aka stat sticks OR builds that are designed ONLY to do this one fight (aka 1hp build)

it might be possible to do Uber Elder with this setup but.. i would like to see it

Sorry I don't know what is Static Strike RT and stat sticks, so should find better player then me for that task. Moreover I already completed all my goals in this game and just chilling on the forums. If they will add new Uber boss I will return, I mean. I have no goal to kill Uber Elder with every build possible, it's boring and meaningless to only expand that influence each time at least. But people REALLY do it and there are lot of posts about it.

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ironstove a écrit :

Ok, serious post though,

Fact of the matter is that making encounters that are both challenging BUT can also be done by many different builds is HARD, whereas designing encounters which are challenging and can only be completed by very few builds is EASY (look at uber elder and how the majority of people playing are using RF).

[...]

None of which explains the massive numerical differences between T14-15 map bosses and guardians/shaper.

Again, my point is not about how difficult endgame is compared to player power. It's about how difficult endgame is compared to the content immediately preceding it.

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sidtherat a écrit :

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fwd a écrit :

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ironstove a écrit :

fights such as shaper/uber elder were bad design (Filling the arena with permanent DOTs) because they're speed/DPS tests on builds and not really mechanically challenging

There are both DPS/survivability checks AND mechanically challenging. Great design, want more of that.

"

ironstove a écrit :

you can only play 4 different builds if you want to try to play everything in the game

There are much more then 4 builds capable of killing Uber Elder and there is thread on the forum where people discussion killing him with various builds.

want a challenge?

Static Strike RT - go. if possible - do not use shaper idiocy aka stat sticks OR builds that are designed ONLY to do this one fight (aka 1hp build)

it might be possible to do Uber Elder with this setup but.. i would like to see it

Well @&#^ me. @sidtherat asks what I asked before Shaper/Elder/Uber Elder became a "thing". Players using a REAL dual wielding skill with RT and actually completing the goddamn end game - wanted to see at least an Uber Atziri run with 0 deaths of such a build, 3.3.0 is about to hit and I'm still waiting.

Fun fact - I can run almost any map mod (ele reflect is asinine on an Static Strike fully converted, but can be completed as long as you don't use a Phys to Light sup, and having No Leech + No Regen on a HP build requires to use LGoH, so you can't go "bonkers" on the other dangerous map mods) on any goddamn tier 15 map, heck I can manage most of the time DEATHLESS VAAL TEMPLE with dangerous (not outright asinine mods), and still Guardians feel like a brick wall, let's not even talk about Shaper/Uber Elder - yes, I can actually share my opinion as my level 99 main Jugg actually uses Static Strike dual wielding RT...

So "melee" is "doing great" compared to ranged/cast playstyles, as GGG can't seem to "throw us a bone" except by granting opie-op items like candy and slapping "melee" on AoE/ranged skills...

Meh, PoE lacks difficulty even with boosted health values for the bosses on T1-T15 content, and when "the going gets tough", you suddenly realize you're locked out "just because", so for you, "the tough ALWAYS KEEPS going"...

If they made it harder it would lock people like you out.

I've been noticing the game has had a really BAD difficulty curve for years. Most eggregiously was the transition from Act 10 to maps: once you've beaten Kitava, you absolutely BREEZE through white maps. It's an utter bore.

The shift from T14/15 to Guardians/Shaper/Elder is... A huge jump. Actual challenging gameplay relies on the game providing a CONTINUAL shift. With this, there's no in-between; you can't logically argue that "The Depraved Trinity" is just a small step down from even Minotaur.

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fwd a écrit :

better player then me for that task. Moreover I already completed all my goals in this game and just chilling on the forums.

So... Exactly how does this give you the credentials and authority to be trusted on what is "mechanically challenging," if we've established some rather hard limits to your own skill? Instead, it just comes off as you considering it "challenging," because it was, at some point, hard for YOU.

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ACGIFT a écrit :

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fwd a écrit :

better player then me for that task. Moreover I already completed all my goals in this game and just chilling on the forums.

So... Exactly how does this give you the credentials and authority to be trusted on what is "mechanically challenging," if we've established some rather hard limits to your own skill? Instead, it just comes off as you considering it "challenging," because it was, at some point, hard for YOU.

You should not trust me. If you're playing a build capable to right-click and facetank Uber Elder and fight is not mechanically challenging for you, I'm OK with it, I'm just telling from my personal experience. And from other side if someone's build is incapable of doing end-game content it doesn't mean that end-boss difficulty should be decreased. Just check twitch, youtube, reddit and this forum - everyone and his grandma are killing Uber Elder nowadays. So when someone says 'you can only play 4 different builds if you want to try to play everything in the game' it's a lie. It's much more than that, but your fight experience could differ greatly amongst these builds. And it's simply not possible to achieve perfect balance of difficulty between all builds and playstyles to make such fight equally challenging or easy for everyone.