[3.11] Shaper = Stunned, Tidebreaker Heavy Strike Stunner Build

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BA3YDADDY a écrit :

Heavy Strike Support gems

What about Rage Support? Multistrike? Added fire damage? Stun Support?

Thx man

Merry Christmas

The gems section should provide enough info on Multistrike and Stun Support. They are good under certain scenarios.

Rage Support is pretty bad for boss fights. You may use Rage Support w/ Cyclone or whatever AoE skill you use for clearing trash.

Added Fire Damage is just really bad. Don't use it, like ever.

Merry Christmas to you as well (and everyone else reading this).

What about the use of Rage Support on a Berzerker you build rage double rate and you can use Berserk in a fight maby 2 times? Huge dps boost for more stun lock?

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BA3YDADDY a écrit :

What about the use of Rage Support on a Berzerker you build rage double rate and you can use Berserk in a fight maby 2 times? Huge dps boost for more stun lock?

For most boss fights, no, I don't think it's a good idea.

Rage Support itself offers far less damage compared to other choices like Bloodlust or Damage on Full Life.

Depending on the fight and its different phases, rage buff is usually not very effective. It takes a long time to build up rage stacks from ground zero.

Berserk is a temporal DPS boost while sacrificing the DPS of the dozens of seconds after the effect ends. The total long-term DPS you pull out is going to be about the same whether you use Berserk or not.

This means you will have a long period of lower DPS, followed by a short period of burst damage, then a long period of lower DPS again, then a short period of burst...

And a major challenge of stun-locking is actually to stun the boss at the very beginning. If you can't stun them at the beginning, you will start taking damage and maybe be forced to retreat or play the boss mechanics. This means wasted flask charges and maybe deactivated Damage on Full Life and maybe difficulty in re-approaching the boss and re-initiate stunning.

So stun-locking is mostly about being able to deal good damage at the very beginning and being able to deal consistent damage output afterwards.

Using the combination of Rage Support and Berserk means greatly sacrificing your overall DPS for a short period of DPS burst many many seconds into the fight. This is the opposite of what we need for stun-locking.

There are a couple boss fights where you may utilize the extra damage mitigation from Berserk. But generally it's not worth it to put Rage Support in your single-target 6-link.

Yeah you are right.

Got a 30% 6L 6R Tide today and with the setup i have now my Heavy strike is 165% reduced stun and cyclone is 88%

I can take out rare boots and add Redblade for 10% more and take out stun Support and add multistrike but not sure yet what i like Best.

Need to test That out first and maby try out bloodlust support with some added bleed chance passives.

But I can stun lock Sirus so its working but I still think it can be better.

Got a offer on a Pride Auls pendling so i can add a free haste.

Lest see how it turns out.

Thx for all the help man.

And again Merry Christmas

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BA3YDADDY a écrit :

Yeah you are right.

Got a 30% 6L 6R Tide today and with the setup i have now my Heavy strike is 165% reduced stun and cyclone is 88%

I can take out rare boots and add Redblade for 10% more and take out stun Support and add multistrike but not sure yet what i like Best.

Need to test That out first and maby try out bloodlust support with some added bleed chance passives.

But I can stun lock Sirus so its working but I still think it can be better.

Got a offer on a Pride Auls pendling so i can add a free haste.

Lest see how it turns out.

Thx for all the help man.

And again Merry Christmas

How was your Sirus fight? I haven't tried the new bosses yet and I wonder if you have any thoughts to share.

The first fights was a big giant f*ck but when you know his tactics it's kind of easy like every ohter boss in the game.

The build works great against him but it's not like his Exile boss friends Thats just stun lock Dead.

But for sure the hardest fight GGG have given us yet.

I've been playing with a Berserker version of your build in Metamorph. So far I have all the gear, but one of my Tidebreakers refuses to six link and I am stuck with 5-link at the moment.

TBH, for this league, I am thinking that it is just not worth it to go Berserker over Slayer. However, until I six-link the Tidebreaker, it will be hard to say for sure.

All the map bosses and Conquerors stun-lock no problem on a five link. However, the metamorph bosses have been a very mixed bag. On red maps, if I select the hardest metamorph boss, the stun-lock is 50/50.

The big issue is that you will have zero rage when the metamorph fight starts (this is also true with the Conqueror fights), and the metamorph bosses hit so hard they will often one or two shot you. So rage kind of goes out the window as an advantage.

To me, the 10% increased damage taken from Crave the Slaughter doesn't seem worth it when Slayer gets 20% more damage from Headsman plus 15% more damage based on proximity from Impact. That's only 5% less damage than Berserker at the start of the fight.

Also, for me, Pain Reaver is a must vs Warbringer for the new atlas. The Baran influence map enemies in particular hit extremely hard, and for now, I don't think there is any way Warbringer can keep you alive for its double damage mod to matter. I will have to test Warbringer again though as I just switched to heavy strike--multistrike--ancestral call--awakened melee splash-brutality for map clear (the packs instantly explaode, which is not the case with ground slam, which is what I was using previously). The faster clear may make Warbringer viable.

Finally, damage on full life support is not really a gem that works well for Berzerker, as you are constantly dropping health compared to slayer, who has overleech. So in that sense, Slayer gives you more options on support gems that add more damage.

For my 6 link single target I am thinking:

heavy strike--multistrike--brutality--melee physical damage--ruthless

I am not sure about the 6th link though. One option is fortify. But that leaves an open spot on my four link leap slam--faster attacks--ancestral warchief setup. Another option is a stun support gem, which may allow us to consistently stun lock metamorphs.

I could also drop multistrike and add bloodlust, and then link chance to bleed to ancestral warchief, but I really do not want to drop multistrike, as it makes targeting so much less clunky. Again, slayer has the option of choosing damage on full life support.

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JaguarXXX a écrit :

I've been playing with a Berserker version of your build in Metamorph. So far I have all the gear, but one of my Tidebreakers refuses to six link and I am stuck with 5-link at the moment.

TBH, for this league, I am thinking that it is just not worth it to go Berserker over Slayer. However, until I six-link the Tidebreaker, it will be hard to say for sure.

All the map bosses and Conquerors stun-lock no problem on a five link. However, the metamorph bosses have been a very mixed bag. On red maps, if I select the hardest metamorph boss, the stun-lock is 50/50.

The big issue is that you will have zero rage when the metamorph fight starts (this is also true with the Conqueror fights), and the metamorph bosses hit so hard they will often one or two shot you. So rage kind of goes out the window as an advantage.

To me, the 10% increased damage taken from Crave the Slaughter doesn't seem worth it when Slayer gets 20% more damage from Headsman plus 15% more damage based on proximity from Impact. That's only 5% less damage than Berserker at the start of the fight.

Also, for me, Pain Reaver is a must vs Warbringer for the new atlas. The Baran influence map enemies in particular hit extremely hard, and for now, I don't think there is any way Warbringer can keep you alive for its double damage mod to matter. I will have to test Warbringer again though as I just switched to heavy strike--multistrike--ancestral call--awakened melee splash-brutality for map clear (the packs instantly explaode, which is not the case with ground slam, which is what I was using previously). The faster clear may make Warbringer viable.

Finally, damage on full life support is not really a gem that works well for Berzerker, as you are constantly dropping health compared to slayer, who has overleech. So in that sense, Slayer gives you more options on support gems that add more damage.

For my 6 link single target I am thinking:

heavy strike--multistrike--brutality--melee physical damage--ruthless

I am not sure about the 6th link though. One option is fortify. But that leaves an open spot on my four link leap slam--faster attacks--ancestral warchief setup. Another option is a stun support gem, which may allow us to consistently stun lock metamorphs.

I could also drop multistrike and add bloodlust, and then link chance to bleed to ancestral warchief, but I really do not want to drop multistrike, as it makes targeting so much less clunky. Again, slayer has the option of choosing damage on full life support.

Quite a few interesting points here, and I will make my comments.

1. I am not playing the stun build this league and I haven't had time to explore the new contents much, but it's hard to imagine being one-shot or two-shot w/ this build if you have your defense options right.

-Maybe it's a good idea to keep Fortify Support in your main damage setup, if you fail to have a good Fortify coverage, considering you invested many passive points into Fortify related buffs.
-Not sure what damage source are you dying to, but usually defensive flasks like Basalt and Stibnite should add a lot to your survival.
-I also like Molten Shell better than Immortal Call; Molten Shell plus armour flasks usually means invulnerability in my experience.
-Why do you not have a bleed flask? Blood of Karui also doesn't make much sense to me. I would definitely use at least an instant or semi-instant life flask instead.

2. It's worth it to buy another Tidebreaker and 5-link it so that you have an AoE setup and a single-target setup at the same time. If you're trying to stun w/ an AoE centered Ground Slam setup or a Heavy Strike setup w/ Ancestral Call and Melee Splash, chances are you're not going to stun very well.

3. I don't quite get your argument with Pain Reaver vs. Warbringer. If the problem is that you die too quickly, then I don't see Pain Reaver helping the situation in any way as well. You could always spam warcries every 4 to 8 seconds even if you're at full life to utilize the damage bonuses. Also, this build should have 7k life, 77/76/76 resists, quite some Fortify effect, and many slots for defensive flasks; if you're dying so quickly that the 25% self-heal from Warbringer doesn't matter - you're doing something wrong.

4. There is an argument to be had regarding picking Slayer instead of Berserker. Slayer would indeed be much tankier than Berserker, so is probably a better choice for you considering you're having trouble with your defense. However, from my experience if you make use of flasks, Molten Shell and warcry correctly you shouldn't really have any problems with Berserker as well.

5. Damage on Full Life works for Berserker, but as you said, doesn't work as well as Slayer. As long as you follow my passive tree choices, you will have enough regen to counter your degen from Blood Rage and rage stacks and thus enabling Damage on Full Life. Warbringer also makes it possible to quickly heal to full after taking a bit of damage, re-enabling Damage on Full Life.

6. Multistrike can be detrimental to your stun capability if you are not well-geared enough. Make sure you are aware of that.

7. I would definitely consider adding Fortify in your 6-link. Stun Support is also good as well if you're having trouble stunning, but it really shouldn't happen.

It's only some of the metamorph bosses that will one or two shot you. I have maxed resists and 6200 hp currently at lvl 90 (will grab more life the next 5 to 6 levels, so I should end up around 7000 hps; also my rings and necklace suck), and I always make sure to trigger fortify at the start and to have it up while clearing. And I gem swap for bosses.

I am not having any trouble with the new content at all except some of the insane metamorph bosses and Baran's influence red maps. Baran's influence adds a TON of lightning based minions who do a lot of damage. The pack density is just crazy, and they hit extremely hard and they will hit you offscreen. All the other Conquerors influenced maps are a joke. If you can't kill the Baran minions quickly enough, you will die. Pain Reaver gives you 50% life recovery rate. Blood of Karui adds another 20%. That's a whopping 70% multiplier on life recovery rate. In contrast, with Warbringer and using ground slam to clear (which doesn't kill fast enough), it was a nightmare. The leech off of the tree is just not remotely fast enough to compensate for the insane damage you take. Try those red Baran maps out and you will see. It could be that a faster clear skill, like cyclone or even heavy strike with AC and melee splash, will make it easier to kill the enemies before they have a chance to cast.

I think on the old Atlas, the Berserker would absolutely breeze through it.

Also, I am using a corrupted jewel that prevents corrupted blood, so I do not need a staunching flask at all. I have never died to a bleed. blood of Karui flask also recharges insanely fast.

It's not that the Berserker is bad, I just think Slayer will work better. No +10% damage taken, and better AOE for clearing, not to mention overleech. All in exchange for 5% less damage. I will give warbringer another try using a different clear skill to see if I can manage, but I have my serious doubts.

Vaal molten shell is awesome for bossing, but it's the trash mobs on the Baran influenced maps that are giving me problems. Unless you have 10,000 armour or higher, steel skin and immortal call are better than the regular molten shell. For clearing, you can't have vall molten shell up all the time. By the way, I was using a basalt of iron skin flask as my 5th flask instead of blood of Karui when I had Warbringer.

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JaguarXXX a écrit :

It's only some of the metamorph bosses that will one or two shot you. I have maxed resists and 6200 hp currently at lvl 90 (will grab more life the next 5 to 6 levels, so I should end up around 7000 hps; also my rings and necklace suck), and I always make sure to trigger fortify at the start and to have it up while clearing. And I gem swap for bosses.

I am not having any trouble with the new content at all except some of the insane metamorph bosses and Baran's influence red maps. Baran's influence adds a TON of lightning based minions who do a lot of damage. The pack density is just crazy, and they hit extremely hard and they will hit you offscreen. All the other Conquerors influenced maps are a joke. If you can't kill the Baran minions quickly enough, you will die. Pain Reaver gives you 50% life recovery rate. Blood of Karui adds another 20%. That's a whopping 70% multiplier on life recovery rate. In contrast, with Warbringer and using ground slam to clear (which doesn't kill fast enough), it was a nightmare. The leech off of the tree is just not remotely fast enough to compensate for the insane damage you take. Try those red Baran maps out and you will see. It could be that a faster clear skill, like cyclone or even heavy strike with AC and melee splash, will make it easier to kill the enemies before they have a chance to cast.

I think on the old Atlas, the Berserker would absolutely breeze through it.

Also, I am using a corrupted jewel that prevents corrupted blood, so I do not need a staunching flask at all. I have never died to a bleed. blood of Karui flask also recharges insanely fast.

It's not that the Berserker is bad, I just think Slayer will work better. No +10% damage taken, and better AOE for clearing, not to mention overleech. All in exchange for 5% less damage. I will give warbringer another try using a different clear skill to see if I can manage, but I have my serious doubts.

Vaal molten shell is awesome for bossing, but it's the trash mobs on the Baran influenced maps that are giving me problems. Unless you have 10,000 armour or higher, steel skin and immortal call are better than the regular molten shell. For clearing, you can't have vall molten shell up all the time. By the way, I was using a basalt of iron skin flask as my 5th flask instead of blood of Karui when I had Warbringer.

Okay, then it sort of makes sense and much thanks for your feedback.

I do want to point out one last thing.

"Pain Reaver gives you 50% life recovery rate. Blood of Karui adds another 20%. That's a whopping 70% multiplier on life recovery rate."

This is not how it works.

Pain Reaver offers "50% increased Maximum total Recovery per second from Life Leech if you've taken a Savage Hit Recently". This mod acts on the maximum leech rate you can have. The default is 20%, with Pain Reaver, this is boosted up to 30%. If you have 10 active leech instances, then yes, Pain Reaver works just like 50% life recovery rate for leeching (each leech instance recovers 2% life by default). In AoE scenarios, 10 active leech instances is easy to achieve, but in single-target situations, no, you're not going to have 10 leech instances. This is because leech instances are removed when you reach full life.

In other words, the leech effect from Pain Reaver is almost as good as 50% recovery rate for leeching when clearing packs, but is pretty much completely useless when single-targeting.

The 20% increased recovery rate from Blood of the Karui is local. Which means the mod only affects this flask's recovery rate. Your leech and life regen and other sources of life recovery won't be affected.

EDIT: also to comment on getting 10k armour: it's actually really easy to achieve. We naturally have some % armour and flat armour from the tree and gears. All it takes is popping Lion's Roar (3000 flat armour) and any other utility flask with increased armour (up to 100% increased) on it, and you will definitely have more than 10k armour. In my PoB page, I see 19k armour on my Berserker character w/ flasks and Molten Shell, and 15k armour on my Slayer.