[3.11] Shaper = Stunned, Tidebreaker Heavy Strike Stunner Build

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Haadd a écrit :

So I guess that with the Ground Slam variant I should get 2m-2,5m tops with RT? Never managed to scale damage so high in a RT build.

Well, not really.

I am looking at my Slayer PoB page, and see 3.4m DPS w/ Heavy Strike w/ Fortify corrupted Tidebreaker. After changing to Ground Slam, switching Damage on Full Life to Concentrated Effect, and in my PoB Correction flask I erase the Heavy Strike correction and add in 49% more damage (Ground Slam deals up to 49% more damage to closer targets), I see 1.8m DPS.

It's possible to scale Ground Slam a bit more with correct helm enchant, 2 freed jewel slots, and AoE scaling (e.g. Blood and Sand), but those scalings would at most boost the DPS to around 2m in my opinion.

I estimate with the gears I had when recording the video, I had around 3m DPS w/ Heavy Strike, so taking that into account, I would say you probably only need around 1.8m DPS with the right correction, or around 1.1m DPS without making any corrections.

So, one thing we learned here is that Heavy Strike deals almost twice the damage of Ground Slam. Another thing we learned here is that PoB is really inaccurate; our real DPS is almost twice than what PoB tells you, even if you select all the correct settings.

To conclude here, to replicate the DPS I displayed in the Ground Slam Uber Elder video (which is around 1.8m, but that character was able to deal 3m DPS w/ Heavy Strike), you only need your PoB to tell you you have 1.1m DPS with Ground Slam, if you don't make manual corrections.

If I choose to clear with Heavy Strike, would be Shockwave be more efficient than splash or ancestral call? I'd like to have an okish clear with the huge single target from Heavy Strike. Not really a fan of swapping weapons. What are your thoughts on shockwave? Can it also boost my single target damage? I'm assuming the shockwave hits the same target where it procc from.

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Haadd a écrit :

If I choose to clear with Heavy Strike, would be Shockwave be more efficient than splash or ancestral call? I'd like to have an okish clear with the huge single target from Heavy Strike. Not really a fan of swapping weapons. What are your thoughts on shockwave? Can it also boost my single target damage? I'm assuming the shockwave hits the same target where it procc from.

You can certainly use Shockwave with Heavy Strike. The problem I raise here is that Heavy Strike + Shockwave is strictly worse than almost any other skill + Shockwave when it comes to clear speed. And after sacrificing a support gem for Shockwave, your Heavy Strike DPS is gonna drop quite a bit as well.

Currently, I think because the low attack rate multiplier of Heavy Strike and the low attack speed bonus from Multistrike, Heavy Strike feels really clunky when used as AoE. If you don't like the idea of swapping weapons, maybe you can try out some other skills like Ground Slam or Sweep (Cyclone works as well, but you won't stun high tier bosses as often with it). They don't deal as much damage as Heavy Strike but I don't think we lack damage anyways.

That said, you should always test your AoE setups yourself and decide if you like it or not. There is usually no correct answer for AoE setups, but preferences.

Have you tried Tribal Fury node (blight only annointed node) which allows strike skills to hit 1 additional target? Maybe that with melee splash can make Heavy Strike clear speed less painful, assuming the second target will also trigger splash.

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Haadd a écrit :

Have you tried Tribal Fury node (blight only annointed node) which allows strike skills to hit 1 additional target? Maybe that with melee splash can make Heavy Strike clear speed less painful, assuming the second target will also trigger splash.

Yes the 2nd target also triggers splash.

I didn't actually try Tribal Fury but I did do a couple tests with and without Ancestral Call (which is like 2x Tribal Fury). The problem that I see is that having only 1 extra target is not good enough; you cannot fully clear a pack with a couple swings of Heavy Strike if you only have Tribal Fury. If you have Tribal Fury + Ancestral Call + Melee Splash, then you should be able to clear a pack with a couple swings, but you're using 2 support gems that contributes nothing to your single-target DPS.

So we face the dilemma that we either use both Ancestral Call and Melee Splash, and have a Heavy Strike setup that has similar DPS to a 6-link Cyclone, or we get only Tribal Fury and Melee Splash, and have to move around and swing multiple times to clear only one pack of mobs.

The reason that I am so obsessed with clearing a whole pack is that Heavy Strike is way too slow right now. Having to perform multiple attacks to clear only one pack would mean that any other skill could clear faster than Heavy Strike.

I think this is a great example of why melee league was a big failure (Like, every pushed meta?). Real melee (strike skills) is in a worse position than it was in. The problem of needing both Ancestral Call and Melee Splash was not solved, weapon range was not effective at making strike skills viable for AoE, and many actually useful buffs (Cyclone, Pulverise, etc.) have been nerfed back to ground.

Again, AoE setup is something more of a preference. So I am just providing opinions on my part - the only thing that matters for you is if you yourself enjoy using it.

That could be lessened if only shockwave didn't have any cooldown at all, and could proc multiple times (with splash + tribal fury). That way it could help with single target too (shockwave hits the same target as heavy strike, right?) And we could drop ancestrall call and add a damage gem instead.

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Haadd a écrit :

That could be lessened if only shockwave didn't have any cooldown at all, and could proc multiple times (with splash + tribal fury). That way it could help with single target too (shockwave hits the same target as heavy strike, right?) And we could drop ancestrall call and add a damage gem instead.

Well, if that happens we're still better off using Cyclone (imagine Cyclone + Shockwave w/o cooldown). The problem with Heavy Strike is not about Shockwave, it's about Heavy Strike itself being so clunky and short-ranged.

And yes, Shockwave does hit the same target as Heavy Strike.

Tribal Fury was an attempt to help strike skills but in the end it mostly only benefited those with secondary effects (Molten Strike, Frost Blades, Lightning Strike, etc.).

I would like to see Ancestral Call being something like "strike skills target 2 additional enemies, if this effect is not triggered, supported skills deal 30% more damage", Melee Splash being "strike skills could be used while moving, and creates an explosion dealing 30% of primary target damage (also applies to the primary target); deal 30% less damage while moving, gain +6 weapon range while moving".

If something like this happens, then we won't have to worry about using both gems or swapping gems for boss fights. But this is probably not gonna happen, as we just had a melee league (Cyclone league) and melee is probably not seeing a rework in at least a year.

took like 4 tries to get this amulet.

decided to try shaper for the first time ever, i was able to stun lock him only using one weight of the empire jewel. my only death came to a shaper slam he caught me off guard with right after dialogue heading into final phase.

thanks again for the build and help.

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Ken34 a écrit :

took like 4 tries to get this amulet.

decided to try shaper for the first time ever, i was able to stun lock him only using one weight of the empire jewel. my only death came to a shaper slam he caught me off guard with right after dialogue heading into final phase.

thanks again for the build and help.

A very nice thing to hear. Gratz.

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Totem
Vaal Ancestral Warchief
-Link to your Leap Slam setup if possible.

What does it mean?
Linking a Warchief to a LeapSlam? (Neither is support gem..) Or what?
(I am newbie, of course.)