[3.14] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, ✔️All Bosses Down, ✔️Necro, ✔️Elementalist

3B2R1G skin of the loyal is very expensive - Is there a cheaper alternative for golem gem colors?


Also, a different question - at what level can I actually transition into golems? I reached maps now but I'm very far from all the stuff you're listing as preparation.

I got these two this league. Thought you all might find them interesting :D (Not for sale btw, I am using them myself with this build).

double post

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tomatopotato a écrit :

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mika2salo a écrit :

I tested some of you older boss kill setups and wasn't very impressed with guardians that moved alot, stationary bosses died very fast though. I tried clear version briefly but Lightning Golems felt slower. Lightning Golems are next best Golems, very close to Flame Golems but when you have to setup them either for boss killing to get faster boss kill time or clear setup to get near Flame Golem clear time and losing boss kill, it really feels like they are missing a role unless talking about very fast stationary boss kill setup.

Perhaps you misread what I wrote. Using similar mapping setups, Lightning and Flame are basically the same for both clearspeed and bossing. I provided a video clearpeed comparison earlier. Now here's a bossing comparison vs. Minotaur:

Flame: video
~29 second kill

Lightning: video
~25 second kill

I can produce the same results for every single Guardian. Note, Flame had the advantage with a +2 SOTL, while Lightning had +1. I didn't count Bone Offering setup time for Flame either.

Also if I recall correctly, you said you tested with a Tabula, using your Necro tree and mostly Necro gem-links. That's not a legit test.

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New bosses are more stationary which has increased Lighting Golems effectiveness and I'm happy that we have at least 2x useful Golems now. I'm just having hard time figuring best color combo between clear-speed <-> boss kill 6-link. for clear-speed GMP is pretty much needed and theres not really any green gem that that boost lightning orbs damage?

This stationary vs. non-stationary boss thing is an non-issue. I'm confused why you bring this up, considering that storm orbs and TV spectre totems basically have the same range. Do you think Flame+TVs are also less effective against moving bosses?

Repeating to make sure I'm not misunderstood: You don't have to change setups to kill bosses with Lightning at the same speed as Flame. I only do it because I like bossing and I play HC (no logout macro), so it's actually worth my time to optimize as much as possible. Again:

GMP-Link Mapping
Flame and Lightning = similar speed

GMP-Link Bossing
Flame and Lightning = similar speed

Boss-Optimized Link
To be honest, I'm not sure anymore. My guess is Lightning is still slightly ahead here, since there's no need to manage Magma Ball positioning. I've been meaning to try Flame with a single-target setup for a while, but just haven't gotten around to it. I might try later today and post results with FG-MinionDmg-Echo-Controlled-EleFocus-Combustion.

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Damage is pretty close in the videos but now adding Combustion to Flame Golems lowers fire res -20% for TV specs damage. This is major buff in damage and is especially visible with Necromancer. Elementalist should also do significantly more damage now with TV specs.

20% is not a major buff (effectively only like a 15% More multiplier after you factor EE, curses, and inherent TV debuff).

As Golementalist, it's even less significant since your TV specs do about 30% DPS of legit Necro Spectres at best. With Combusion defuff, that 30% becomes... ~35%? Even worse if you're only running 2-3 specs.

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TV specs can also be used with chance taunt gem as they actually hit. I think only Stone and Ice Golems have useful melee attacks and 2x golems hit lot less than 3-4x TVs + AG. I have been recently testing taunt and have been pretty impressed how well it works.

Going to assume you meant Abyss Jewel, not gem. Chance to Taunt is a placebo imo. Even in the best case scenario, you'd only have 16% total chance in the double-Abyss socket belt (unless you're willing to sacrifice more DPS/Harmony in your tree. On top of that, endgame bosses basically ignore it. If Taunt is that important to you, a 1-link Decoy Totem would probably be more effective.

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kayella a écrit :

I've been toying around with a tree like this: 14 sockets at 90, watcher's eye ES regen, 8 harmonies and 2 eminence. I figured the 60% increased buffs from golems can add some qol to regen (stone golem). Alhough, it would be simple to just socket two more harmonies if stacking enough golem cast speed.

https://pastebin.com/XmP7jBKG.

Although it uses some items that don't appear on the market often, it seems interesting. Looks like you still have room on your tree to grab Quick Recovery and Growth and Decay if you want to go hard on the regen route. I do tend to grab ZO on my trees after picking up Shav's, but I've never focused on regen this much. That said, I've seen it work for others: https://youtu.be/Uo8LdgwEtHU

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I also had an idea of using increased duration + raise spectre (in elder helmet for minion life), and grabbing Undying Evangelist for their proximity shield.

Would definitely be interested in seeing this. Laugh in the face of tentacle slams.

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Also dropping the dual curse because of the 80% reduced effectiveness. Maybe even dropping curse entirely since Combustion comes with a nice -19% res.

Dropping curses and using Combustion seems like apples to oranges to me. It would definitely give you room to toss in Kaom's Roots though if you wanted to.

Hello :)

I'll try to make new video with 4x Golems and 4x TV Specs using combustion soon. That should be good enough for comparison. Elemental Equilibrium will be changed (nerfed) soon, so Combustion is great boost for Golems and Specters as TVs give their own debuff and Golems their own now. Can Lightning Golems compensate for the loss of EE?

I agree that atm, both Golems are pretty close to each other but Flame Golems have aoe attacks, which gives them advantage in clearing tight packs. However in sparse monster density or at boss fight they are about equal.

Maybe the moving target problem is not that big deal anymore. I think I have lvl 97 witch unspecced so maybe ill spec it for your guide to test Lightning Golems out as they are next Golems to go for if Flame Golems get nerfed someday, which I however highly doubt will happen.

Taunt should definitely work and guild has mentioned significantly less aggro from bosses / enemies after using vaal skels with taunt jewel. Other threads that I quickly googled also report that taunt is working well. Have you tested it with other minions as Lightning Golems can't trigger taunt as they don't have attacks?

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Thanks Mika for that info on those two ascendencies. Just one more question - I saw that phoenix youtube video just now - would I be right in assuming that the %taunt wouldn't work for golems? I am assuming most of their "attacks" are spells rather than actual attacks?

Hey :)

Yep, taunt wont work on Golems as they use only spells. Animate Guardian and Tukohama Varguards hit, so they cant taunt with no problems. Skeletons are however still main aggro taker with taunt.

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Thx for the response Mika.

I plan on using golems as my MF character so only need it to clear yellow maps. I have a LL PP VD for anything tougher. I hadn't considered combustion in there. I think I run: Flame Golem, GMP, Spell Echo, Minion Damage, Controlled Destruction + Item Rarity. No empower as no hard content and I've never had a 20/20 flame golem die in a yellow map. I am also running both flammabilioty and ele weakness curse on hit so do you think the 19% extra pen from combustion is still worth losing controlled destruction?

Going to attempt to go CI but will only have around 5k ES so that may not be viable. I am hoping with temp chains I will just be able to survive plus with a maxed out decoy totem I may not get hit too much anyway. Tried out a single incursion so far with 4 flame golems as I am still leveling. They did ok. Still shoot rather slowly atm but I have a lot of jewels still to get plus the minion damage clusters. Hopefully they'll get back to how I am used to as I level up some more.

Just thought it was weird that in leagues gone past I would be paying ~3ex per Might and this league they were under 30c. Same with Harmonies; usually 20c+ and now 3c for a "good" jewel.

Hi :)

Combustion boosts damage from all minions, so I think it might be better than Cont Dest. Haven't done math yet but it looks very promising.

Just switched to Golems myself and with 2x harmonies they are shooting rather slowly. But after testing in standard I can assure you that they shoot as fast as before with same amount of jewels ;)

Golem stuff seems to be cheaper as there is divine card that gives corrupt 21/0 Flame Golem now. GGG also boosted over 20+ skills, so there is demand for lots of skills instead of just handful. Arc-totems seems to be new hot stuff and thanks for that I got Anima + Might with only one days worth of grinding ^^

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3B2R1G skin of the loyal is very expensive - Is there a cheaper alternative for golem gem colors?

Also, a different question - at what level can I actually transition into golems? I reached maps now but I'm very far from all the stuff you're listing as preparation.

Hey :)

You can use 2r2g2b Sotl (golem -> empower -> gmp -> slow proj -> minion damage -> echo). Costs about 40c but has 20% less damage than better colors. It's not listed so that price manipulators cant hoard them like 2r1g3b and 3r1g2b. It's however mentioned often in thread to give cheaper alternative for Golemancers.

You can switch to Golems as soon as you can summon 4x out. They will be bit less effective than specters with only 2-3x Harmonies but can still easily clear all content at that level.

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I got these two this league. Thought you all might find them interesting :D (Not for sale btw, I am using them myself with this build).

Hi :)

Wow! o_0

Extremely nice corrupts on them, especially the boots.

That's good enough reason for me to keep playing league :P

Thanks for all the help, sorry I'm asking so much.

If I do the standard necro version your build describes, what golems do I use? All flame, or 1 stone golem?

Can anyone tell me how many Harmony use for this build cant find on guide.

Hey, i want to start a golem build, but im kinda lost in this guide, you say that u can do a elementalist with 6 golems, but you don't say what i should do if i want to go as elementalist, only as a necro.
And another thing, i have all the stones for the build, even the Skin of the Loyal, is there a way that i can play with golem sooner, or i really need to play with spectres all the way until i finish the game?

Swapped from TV necro to full flame golem elementalist, feels easier for gearing up and temple farming

Now my build got 6 Primordial Harmony, can still spare 2, maybe up to 4 more jewel sockets

would cast speed from Primordial Eminence help if such case? or should use harmony as many as possible?

Thx alot

Finally have 75% resist chaos (thx chayula's presence), and god, it helps so much in incursions / temple ! <3

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popotm a écrit :

Can anyone tell me how many Harmony use for this build cant find on guide.

iirc, there are 8 harmony (can't open it right now). You can put some more by changing the tree if you want to also.

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Tomgathericon a écrit :

Thanks for all the help, sorry I'm asking so much.

If I do the standard necro version your build describes, what golems do I use? All flame, or 1 stone golem?

Only flames (4 golems)

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Holografik a écrit :

Hey, i want to start a golem build, but im kinda lost in this guide, you say that u can do a elementalist with 6 golems, but you don't say what i should do if i want to go as elementalist, only as a necro.
And another thing, i have all the stones for the build, even the Skin of the Loyal, is there a way that i can play with golem sooner, or i really need to play with spectres all the way until i finish the game?

I think there's an elementalist tree in the first post. Also, going for elementalist is roughly the same (if you follow the build) as a necro, you can just ignore all the resistance node (for minions) as elemental golems are immune to elemental damages.
If you already have everything, you can start playing golems as soon as you can use the skill gems / jewels / clayshaper. Spectres (for the elementalist) are more an help to make it easier.

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30silvercoins a écrit :

would cast speed from Primordial Eminence help if such case? or should use harmony as many as possible?

I think you need some harmonies first to lower the golem cooldowns before trying to fasten the cast of the golem skills, or you might face golems trying to cast too quick and being limited by their cooldown.
I believe eminence can help, but only after 6-8 harmonies at least. (I didn't made any tests, but POB says for example that 7 harmonies and 3 eminences has a better dps than 10 harmonies, but it is still only theoretical data)

Okay, now I like discussing mechanics and testing and all, but this is getting a little silly. I try to back statements up with numbers or video/proof. But it seems like every time I bring some data, you come back with strange speculation like "moving targets" (which btw also affects Flame Golems, TVs, SGs, etc., not just Lightning Golems) or stuff like this:

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mika2salo a écrit :

I agree that atm, both Golems are pretty close to each other but Flame Golems have aoe attacks, which gives them advantage in clearing tight packs. However in sparse monster density or at boss fight they are about equal.

Lightning Golems love tight packs just as much as Split Arrow Rangers (e.g. a lot). Anybody that plays Lightning Golems for a decent amount of time would know this. LGs don't have the typical "splat" type AOE. But if you build them right, they have decent AOE in their own style. Pierce, as you probably know, allows up to 5 targets to be hit with a single projectile. Here's a video example of Chayula Breachstone (before the Elementalist buffs; 6 golems max).

I don't want to sound harsh, but please reserve judgement on a skill until you actually play it. Honestly, try playing Elementalist for a league, not just "testing" in a Tabula for a weekend or something. It doesn't even have to be Lightning. I honestly don't care what type is the "best". I play all types. I just want to see better, more accurate info.

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I'll try to make new video with 4x Golems and 4x TV Specs using combustion soon. That should be good enough for comparison. Elemental Equilibrium will be changed (nerfed) soon, so Combustion is great boost for Golems and Specters as TVs give their own debuff and Golems their own now.

So the comparison I posted early was not good enough? Note that for the pure golem run that I didn't even bring a Scorching Ray setup in a Burning helm and it still put out the same DPS as the Golem+Spectre mix. I do encourage testing, but as I pointed out with the numbers earlier, I highly doubt Combustion will significantly change the result.

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Can Lightning Golems compensate for the loss of EE?

Not sure. I'll see when it comes out. At the moment, I would say there's not much I can do except slot Penetration. At the same time, I think Lightning does plenty of damage even without EE. Anyway, I can't control what GGG does. They seem to be focused more on fire-based abilities. Elder/Shaper items synergize poorly with non-Flame golems. Chance to Ignite was upgraded to Combustion, but equivalent Chance to Shock/Freeze gems don't exist. Shock stacks got deleted. Shock effect on bosses tends to be bad unless you're Elementalist. etc. etc.

Will deal with that when it comes up though. I'm curious why this EE/Lightning Golem thing even matters? The discussion (I thought) was whether Spectres are worth it or not as Elementalist. I don't care what people think is the "best" golem. I'm just pointing out what I think is inaccurate. How about we avoid turning this into a Flame vs. Lightning debate?

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Maybe the moving target problem is not that big deal anymore.

It never was.

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I think I have lvl 97 witch unspecced so maybe ill spec it for your guide to test Lightning Golems out as they are next Golems to go for if Flame Golems get nerfed someday, which I however highly doubt will happen.

If you're doing it because you enjoy testing and want to learn more, sure, go for it. But if it's not something you really enjoy, then maybe don't bother?

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Taunt should definitely work and guild has mentioned significantly less aggro from bosses / enemies after using vaal skels with taunt jewel. Other threads that I quickly googled also report that taunt is working well. Have you tested it with other minions as Lightning Golems can't trigger taunt as they don't have attacks?

I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm saying it might not work effectively. It might sound counter-intuitive, but for the endgame bosses, it's actually situationally better for the summoner to have aggro. That way you can bait or at least better predict the next attack. If the boss randomly decides to target the minion and happens to (un)luckily aim where you were planning to move, then you might be eating a significant chunk of damage.

Also, like I said earlier, if you're willing to spend a gem slot for Taunt, why wouldn't you just use something more guaranteed aka Decoy Totem? That way you wouldn't have to spend a jewel slot/affix on RNG. That's what I did in Abyss League for a while and it was fine for what it was. I'm not sure why I would pick Chance to Taunt over the other better (imo) suffixes.

(And again with the random criticism of Lightning Golems? When the same criticism applies to Flame? sigh... FYI, if I was forced to pick one of the Minions have Chance to x/y/z mods, it would be Hinder, since it synergizes better. No need to burn a gem slot to make it viable. I'm surprised you wouldn't either, considering your build emphasizes slowing enemies down so much.)