How to fix Life based builds with a single gem

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Effreti a écrit :

you are comparing life and CI objectively, but you also need to take into account the distribution on the tree.Not all life builds have the luxury of instant leech, with the exception of certain items. Your proposal with increase the life, yes, but you still need to fix the situation where one mob hits you for 80% of hp. What do you do now? Considering your armor/eva is not something you invested in:
-You try to regen, on a RF char I did i had around 13%hp regen from tree per second. that won't be enough for next hit.
- you try to leech, but unless you have really high leech or are a zerker, it's unlikely you have the time.
- you pop your instant flasks, but this can only save you a few times. if boss doesn't have adds or you are in a bad phase, it's gg

With armor, eva/dodge or block, it becomes much easier to survive. With eva and block you have the time to leech back to full hp, with armor you take less damage from phys.
Life builds can be of the far left side, where you have a lot of hp, or on the right side, where hp is lower, but you have access to vaal pact. In both cases, your aura will increase the hp, but the problem with the builds will still be there, plus you forgo a damage aura or another defensive curse/aura.

Point is you can get the same benefit from the above with CI + higher lifepool + instant leech on ES.

The issue with life are the one shots. That's it. The rest can be balanced out through play or the tree. Investing in defense is outside the scope of fixing life. When people cry for "fixes" to life (or melee), they want god mode. They want to face tank the game. GGG will never do that and nor should they.

You can have 90% evasion (entropy kicks in eventually so you can't ride in perpetuity), 50% block, 90% physical damage reduction, 150% leech rate and 500 life regen. If your life pool is 6k, you will die. The multitude of one shots in this game will dead you. That is the issue in a nutshell.

The proposal to add a Discipline-life gem for life gem is actually the answer. It will give life based builds a pool large enough health pool to handle nearly any one shot, just as CI does now. The rest is handled by the existing system.

Vaal Pact is grossly overrated, especially with life based buildsas having life regen is incredibly beneficial. VP still adheres to life leech rate limits, all it does is bypass the time needed to meet them. When you hit the cap, your leech is no more beneficial than not using it. All it gives is a burst of heal. Life gain on hit is by far superior because it's instant and has no leech rates. It's just instant life. Problem is the portions are small... very small. Tiny.

My solution is to solve one shots. The rest can be left to the existing system to handle as GGG likes their game rippy. These would keep life and ES exclusive but both could be viable in end game. That's all.

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_Tiem a écrit :

https://s3.postimg.org/i4jwpustf/Untitled.png

EZ Game

I like how this gem has the Attack tag :D

Marginal gains for immense cost.

You can balance life, and the game overall by getting rid of this stupid '1-2 shot is okay in a game because we allow log out macros' mentality and then nerf instant leech coefficients accordingly.

What happened to the days when life regen was a meaningful mechanic?

My last build in Essence League only had 4k life and it could facetank Uber Izaro, even with a few of his buffs. With a bit more life it'd be able to facetank him with maximum buffs. A crit 2H slam only took about about 2/3 of my life and he was completely unable to kill the other third before I got back up to full life.

If you're getting one-shot, the problem is with you, not the game.

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Commoble a écrit :

My last build in Essence League only had 4k life and it could facetank Uber Izaro, even with a few of his buffs. With a bit more life it'd be able to facetank him with maximum buffs. A crit 2H slam only took about about 2/3 of my life and he was completely unable to kill the other third before I got back up to full life.

Whoa guys, watch out - people can facetank Uber Izaro on life based builds. On other news, water is wet.

Uber Izaro is a bad benchmark though. You can get away with 4k life there because armor, endurance charges or even a basalt flask is enough for that fight.

Now try and take your 4k life build into red maps with more difficult mods, the guardians, shaper or even uber atziri. You will have a lot of fun with 4k ehp, even as ranged dps. ;)

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Commoble a écrit :

If you're getting one-shot, the problem is with you, not the game.

You have no idea. Maybe our beloved dinosaur can tell you how hard certain things hit in this game. No amount of life mixed with mitigation suchs as armor, evasion or block will prevent these random oneshots. With a high amount of ES however you have much better chances. So yeah, I would say we have a design problem here.

Oneshots are not a problem - it's quite simple,don't get hit and it's all good (e/g getting hit on uber izaro is your fault,all attacks are perfectly telegraphed before executed) . The problem with life is that the investment in comparison to CI requires way too much points-wise,but even then....
Life is generally fine,what we need is an ES nerf,so to bring it in line with life,you should not be able to survive uber hard hits,no matter what,and most ES builds can just shrug dmg off assuming enough currency is invested in gear.

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Daiena a écrit :

Oneshots are not a problem - it's quite simple,don't get hit and it's all good (e/g getting hit on uber izaro is your fault,all attacks are perfectly telegraphed before executed) . The problem with life is that the investment in comparison to CI requires way too much points-wise,but even then....
Life is generally fine,what we need is an ES nerf,so to bring it in line with life,you should not be able to survive uber hard hits,no matter what,and most ES builds can just shrug dmg off assuming enough currency is invested in gear.

This isn't about uber izario ramming you in the arse with a well telegraphed attack. It's about any random rare mob in a vuln map critting you for 9000 damage or any random high tier map boss doing anything.

It is incredibly painful to advance past level 95 as a crummy 6000 life based char even with a nerfed lightning coil and acro.

When I say one shot, i dont mean one easily telegraphed attack from a boss, i mean a series of hits in a tiny interval too small to react or flask from a group of monsters or from a boss.

I don't like the idea of making something mandatory to use for every life build I run. I feel like skill gems, or items aren't the solution.

It's a combination of things that need to be looked at to help life builds out. I think an easy start up would be to increase life nodes or add flat life to the nodes or a mixture of both.

I would also like to see a fundamental change to life flasks and how they function with life. Perhaps now is the time to add a new flask past divine in the 85+ or something.

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adghar a écrit :

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_Tiem a écrit :

https://s3.postimg.org/i4jwpustf/Untitled.png

EZ Game

I like how this gem has the Attack tag :D

Discipline has the Spell tag which I was surprised at, so I just swapped them lol.

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Nephalim a écrit :

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Daiena a écrit :

Oneshots are not a problem - it's quite simple,don't get hit and it's all good (e/g getting hit on uber izaro is your fault,all attacks are perfectly telegraphed before executed) . The problem with life is that the investment in comparison to CI requires way too much points-wise,but even then....
Life is generally fine,what we need is an ES nerf,so to bring it in line with life,you should not be able to survive uber hard hits,no matter what,and most ES builds can just shrug dmg off assuming enough currency is invested in gear.

This isn't about uber izario ramming you in the arse with a well telegraphed attack. It's about any random rare mob in a vuln map critting you for 9000 damage or any random high tier map boss doing anything.

It is incredibly painful to advance past level 95 as a crummy 6000 life based char even with a nerfed lightning coil and acro.

When I say one shot, i dont mean one easily telegraphed attack from a boss, i mean a series of hits in a tiny interval too small to react or flask from a group of monsters or from a boss.

Usually it's a combination of mods, not necessarily attacks. Vulnerability, added damage mods, crits, - all resistances, etc. Rolling map mods on T14+ is actually scary stuff considering how hard bosses and even some trash mobs hit in high tier. Even then an 8K Life pool won't save you. And you can't dodge everything always. Sometimes the arena size is just too small, or the attack just too fast (let's face it, latency on PoE isn't all that stellar).

I ran the Minotaur map with added damage, negative resists and a few other mods that I thought I could tackle. Nope. He literally one shot me on everything he did. This is on my level 97 EQ juggernaut with 8.5K HP, which is pretty much near max you can get through tree and gear.

I mean you could just avoid content, but what's the fun in that. Life just needs a bigger pool to compete with ES.