Sanctuary of Thought (Hierophant) OP?

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gathor a écrit :

That is what I said mate, Extra ES added after all modifiers.
Also it may seem weak if you compare it to Guardian but with Hierophant you will have hefty life pool, huge mana and at least 2k ES on top of that. Not that bad, extra defence layer.

Edit:
Emphasy - yeah the various wordings seem pretty confusing hence best way to be sure is to see for yourself...

So I tested it and that's not true. True is that the modifiers are added and not multiplied. My Scion has 1341 Mana, which would mean I get 110 ES (the Scion node just gives 8%). However the actual value added to my ES Pool is 207, so it is definitly modified. But it doesn't get my full ES modifiers multiplicatively, since the Base ES I get from the node is actually smaller because the 110 is already modified by my mana modifiers.

So the actual benefits from this node are depending a lot on the amount of increased mana and ES you have and basically behaves like Auras and the increased Aura Efficiency and increased Buff effect modifiers.

(Base Mana * 0.25) * (1.0 + increased_mana + increased_ES) = gained_ES

So that is how it works here, which makes more sense than the odd additive stacking of buff efficiency and aura efficiency (since both stats can actually be on different players... and it is odd that your stats stack additively with those of another player^^). The only multiplier that can be added on here is Infused Shield.

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Anyway I feel like it's nothing broken when compared to other 4 pointers out there since I don't think much people will still go Hierophant since it doesn't offer the amount of power some classes offer.

Yeah I mentioned earlier that the Hierophant has a certain lack of offensive power. He provides good defensive abilities, but his offensive unless using totems is lacking.

I stand corrected.
It is the 15% of Base Mana then that gets Mana + ES % multipliers applied to it.
Thanks mate.

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Emphasy a écrit :

Yeah I mentioned earlier that the Hierophant has a certain lack of offensive power. He provides good defensive abilities, but his offensive unless using totems is lacking.

the thing is, with power creep and everything having damage on it, offensive-oriented ascendancy classes imo are less attractive than those providing defense, unless they provide just too much offense.

champion, guardian, trickster, occultist are popular because they all have (or had) very, very strong defensive implications. I expect juggernaut to pick up too this league.

hierophant is just too pigeonholed, you pretty much HAVE to use MoM or offensive non-fire based totems.

Hierophant is just a mediocre offensive class in general, so why can't he has a great defensive node?

Look at Necromancer in 2.2, people were screaming OP OP at Mistress of Sacrifice, but it turns out that despite how great it is (even more so for HC players), Necromancer as a whole is still lackluster due to the fact that summoner sucks and other nodes do not support non-summoner skills efficiently.

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Taxi_Driver a écrit :

Hierophant is just a mediocre offensive class in general, so why can't he has a great defensive node?

Look at Necromancer in 2.2, people were screaming OP OP at Mistress of Sacrifice, but it turns out that despite how great it is (even more so for HC players), Necromancer as a whole is still lackluster due to the fact that summoner sucks and other nodes do not support non-summoner skills efficiently.

I don't think summoner sucks; its not convenient in many cases but its not close to sucking imo

the reason why mistress of sacrifice turned out to be not so powerful, was because you still had to cast the offering on a corpse and be close enough to benefit. in todays game pace there is not a lot of room for that, and for situations where you want that bone offering up for block (ie, sudden spikes) it doesn't help much if you just run at crazy pace. compare that to uncondtional 'you have fortify' and its not a contest.

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grepman a écrit :

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Taxi_Driver a écrit :

Hierophant is just a mediocre offensive class in general, so why can't he has a great defensive node?

Look at Necromancer in 2.2, people were screaming OP OP at Mistress of Sacrifice, but it turns out that despite how great it is (even more so for HC players), Necromancer as a whole is still lackluster due to the fact that summoner sucks and other nodes do not support non-summoner skills efficiently.

I don't think summoner sucks; its not convenient in many cases but its not close to sucking imo

the reason why mistress of sacrifice turned out to be not so powerful, was because you still had to cast the offering on a corpse and be close enough to benefit. in todays game pace there is not a lot of room for that, and for situations where you want that bone offering up for block (ie, sudden spikes) it doesn't help much if you just run at crazy pace. compare that to uncondtional 'you have fortify' and its not a contest.

Offering range is global, you don't need to be near anything to get its effect, it is either on or off.

But yes, having to cast it is most likely why it doesn't seem OP.
It is similar to manually casting curses. Those defensive curses are pretty insane, but very few people manually casts them.

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Starxsword a écrit :

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grepman a écrit :

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Taxi_Driver a écrit :

Hierophant is just a mediocre offensive class in general, so why can't he has a great defensive node?

Look at Necromancer in 2.2, people were screaming OP OP at Mistress of Sacrifice, but it turns out that despite how great it is (even more so for HC players), Necromancer as a whole is still lackluster due to the fact that summoner sucks and other nodes do not support non-summoner skills efficiently.

I don't think summoner sucks; its not convenient in many cases but its not close to sucking imo

the reason why mistress of sacrifice turned out to be not so powerful, was because you still had to cast the offering on a corpse and be close enough to benefit. in todays game pace there is not a lot of room for that, and for situations where you want that bone offering up for block (ie, sudden spikes) it doesn't help much if you just run at crazy pace. compare that to uncondtional 'you have fortify' and its not a contest.

Offering range is global, you don't need to be near anything to get its effect, it is either on or off.

But yes, having to cast it is most likely why it doesn't seem OP.
It is similar to manually casting curses. Those defensive curses are pretty insane, but very few people manually casts them.

I stand corrected;

I always thought offerings had an internal [large] aoe and there seemed to be instances where offering was up but it appeared as my toon wasnt getting the buff.

but yeah passive defenses rule nowadays. if pace is to slowdown, I think more people would care about non-automated forms of defenses. this is why blasphemy+enfeeble is crazy nowadays.

Im probably the only person who still enfeebles bosses manually when leveling in SC (actually also manually enfeeble tougher bosses in red maps sometimes) lol