CI and Labyrinth traps

doesn't need to be CI to be annoying as hell. the traps have the superior abilities to hit an unlimited number of targets and be immune to aggro and damage. makes life fun for an ES-based pure summoner witch.

P.S. for lulz, can I not pile enough zombies up to jam all the traps?

Yeah life based users for sure have an advantage, I ran my life srs char through over and over basically ignoring traps that they weren't even there and just healing through the damage. Decided to take a break and run my low life classic summoner though to get her points and I quickly learnt I had to actually pay attention to traps, only takes 2 hits and dead! And recharge increases don't help, my classic summoner has 35% modifier!

I find this kind of odd too because they are doing races through it?! Guess it will pay to use a life based char, and not an es char for that! Not that I care, never participated in the races!

Armour-based characters have, well... armour (which does reduce the damage, at least of the spike traps). And, well, instaheal flasks.

Evasion-based characters usually have a lot of attack speed/movements speed. And even stronger insta-heal flasks because of Profane Chemistry and Herbalism.

Pure CI characters have none of the above. CI characters have high EHP pools which gives absolutely nothing against traps.

One way to make the runs easier if you're CI is to make your ES start recharging faster. And the best item for that is... wait, what? A quiver? Guess no whirling blades/leap slam then...




Really, running the Lab with a CI character is a torment compared to what I'm running it with now (Iron Reflexes with the right side of the tree - so a lot of armour, attack speed, Herbalism).


No clue how to fix it, though. Maybe use EHP=100%life + x% ES formula with x, being lower than 100? I guess that would make hybrid characters stronger in the Lab, which I don't mind but some people might.

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yungwhiz a écrit :

One moderately expensive way to do it is to jsut take the point out of ci and put it back when you get to the boss. Having a low life pool will only make brute forcing the traps with potions easier.

This is what i did, along with ditching every piece of ES gear I had on besides my doedre's tenure gloves.

It worked wonders (which for obvious balance reasons IT SHOULD NOT HAVE)

Hi, thanks for making this thread, I made one as well. it is obviously broken! you could see this coming from a mile away... I'm still perplexed how things like this can pass testing(like Haku stones when Masters came out, or Order of the Frozen Sky, and so on), is there any testing done?

My suggestion as a band-aid fix is to apply reduced damage from traps onto your ES.

For ppl raving about changing your gear/build blabla. Let me ask you, how is it fair having to go to such lengths and change your build significantly just to be able to complete Lab? while Life users can simply pop HP flasks.

And lastly, don't compare Vaal Discipline to flasks. Vaal Disc takes up a gem slot which I don't have and it costs 48 souls for ONE use.

All we want is a bit more equal opportunities in the Lab. Just try and go thru those traps as CI/lowlife ES in a Hardcore league - you won't be arguing this.

Btw, the spike traps and the poison dart traps can be somewhat mitigated by armor(like granite/basalt), I have tested it. The other traps are unaffected and purely percentage based.

I'm kinda shocked about how many complaints about lab being hard for ES builds there are. Are you guys doing it without a single movement skill? Just a flame dash + one quicksilver flask allows you to not give an anything about all traps but spikes which usually have an easy pattern and can be negated a little by a staunching flask.
I did a few sub 15min runs as a CI and did not feel any problems, I skipped all silver caches and treasures though

I'm going to have to agree with OP. The traps in the Labyrinth and Trials are an absolute nightmare as a CI character in the hardcore league. The fact that we don't have any "oh crap I messed up" button like people who are health based is incredibly nerve racking. I'm honestly not sure of a solution to this but I do feel like something should be done to accommodate ES characters, especially the ones that use Vaal Pact!

Whirling Blades, Lightning Warp, Leap Slam, Flame Dash, any one of these with Vaal Disc and a Quicksilver with 25-30% MS rolled on it and its not really that bad. Just move quickly through the traps and once you hit a safe spot stop and regen and move on. ALL the movement skills i just mentioned also can go right through the traps without taking any damage just like with corrupted piety's beam.. if timed properly. Thats a huge key to making your way through the traps with ANY build.

Its just like any other Drawback to running CI over Life based you have to overcome it with other mechanics. The biggest issue is the traps do % base damage so that positive of being able to easily have 10-16K+ES is useless. But theres many things you can do to work around it.

Another really good option is if you spec out of CI and take on just a few close by life nodes or remove Energy from Within jewels (if you run those for more ES) and then run this flask..

Believe it or not if you can get around 2.5-3K+ life this flask gives some REALLY nice ES regen on the fly. If your build already run ZO and tons of regen and you run hybrid just for the lab then the flask can just about mitigate the traps completely. Ive been running this flask on my hybrid Witch for a while now and it works great only drawback is it requires 2 flasks slots one for a good life flask and one for the flask itself but its worth it if it keeps you alive.

Only thing i dont understand though is why Granite flasks do not help against the traps... that would be kinda nice but then again.. could be a little broken for high life high armour+regen builds. Which in compareison to say CI is already quite a bit of a difference. But i just dont see much of a way they can balance the Lab for it to be easier for CI without making it a joke for Life+armour based builds either.
unless there was a way to change the % base of trap damage for any build that takes the CI... not too sure what the programming would look like for something like that but thats about the only way i see it possible.

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Anseth a écrit :

No clue how to fix it, though. Maybe use EHP=100%life + x% ES formula with x, being lower than 100? I guess that would make hybrid characters stronger in the Lab, which I don't mind but some people might.

It wont because the calculation are still 100% base on life + ES % after that.

A possible solution would be to weigh Life and Energy Shield differently.
For example, each point of Life is weighed as 1 Effective Hit Point.
Each point of ES is weighed as 1/2 EHP.

This would essentially mean pure ES characters take about half the damage of a pure life character for each trap.