On lag, desync and rubberbanding.

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Gobla a écrit :

You said that regardless of engine or netcode you'll get the same desync.

This is not true. This is false.

You do not get the same desync regardless of engine or netcode.

With a good engine and good netcode you'll get very little desync to the point it's barely noticeable.

With a bad engine and bad netcode you'll get a lot of desync to the point it's a constant factor in gameplay.

Sorry but you do, given that the game will not trust the client and has complex mechanics it doesn't matter what your engine is if you still have the same root causes, it has been done in detail on threads and the devs have shot down new net code, or different engines....so please educate yourself before you try again.

Example, D3 desyncs
Battle field desyncs
ESO desyncs

Different engine different net code same problems.

What are you trying to achieve with this thread?

Has anyone seen my dead horse?

Do you think GGG is not aware?

Seriously how many times a week does this need to come up?

Questions to ponder as you peruse the interwebz today

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jarlaxelb a écrit :

What are you trying to achieve with this thread?

Has anyone seen my dead horse?

Do you think GGG is not aware?

Seriously how many times a week does this need to come up?

Questions to ponder as you peruse the interwebz today

This is the weekly desync QQ thread.

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lagwin1980 a écrit :

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Gobla a écrit :

You said that regardless of engine or netcode you'll get the same desync.

This is not true. This is false.

You do not get the same desync regardless of engine or netcode.

With a good engine and good netcode you'll get very little desync to the point it's barely noticeable.

With a bad engine and bad netcode you'll get a lot of desync to the point it's a constant factor in gameplay.

Sorry but you do, given that the game will not trust the client and has complex mechanics it doesn't matter what your engine is if you still have the same root causes, it has been done in detail on threads and the devs have shot down new net code, or different engines....so please educate yourself before you try again.

Example, D3 desyncs
Battle field desyncs
ESO desyncs

Different engine different net code same problems.

No, he's right. There are different approaches to the desync problem like the choice of whether and when to use UDP vs TCP to send different types of info. There was a long thread about this many months ago where many ideas where thrown around that could compensate for and reduce desync. Unfortunately most of them came down to rewriting the netcode. GGG even commented on it and, in the end, it came down to "sorry but we don't have the time/resources/programmers/down-time to make this work".

So yes, although there is a hard floor of desync imposed by physics that can't be eliminated it doesn't mean that the current state of the game is even remotely close to it at all or can't be improved.

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f4sak3n a écrit :

No, he's right. There are different approaches to the desync problem like the choice of whether and when to use UDP vs TCP to send different types of info. There was a long thread about this many months ago where many ideas where thrown around that could compensate for and reduce desync. Unfortunately most of them came down to rewriting the netcode. GGG even commented on it and, in the end, it came down to "sorry but we don't have the time/resources/programmers/down-time to make this work".

So yes, although there is a hard floor of desync imposed by physics that can't be eliminated it doesn't mean that the current state of the game is even remotely close to it at all or can't be improved.

I assume you mean the thread made by scrotiemc, the one where the dev went through his ideas and told him that it wouldn't make a difference and in some cases make desync worse...because thats what came out of that thread if i remember right.

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Gobla a écrit :

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lagwin1980 a écrit :

Nothing to do with the engine,net code or anything else other than physics...you'll get desync the same on every engine out there and no matter the net code given the parameters the game adheres to.

This is just blatantly false, even GGG disagrees.

Some desync, given a prediction-based model, is unavoidable.

This amount of desync most certainly is not. Even GGG's own manifesto notes that there most certainly is room for improvement in the current situation.

 No game has 0 desync, the very nature of how Internet packets get routed means there will always be some desync. But some game engines are better than others. Desync in D3 is much less than PoE. Desync in Mech Warrior Online is much less and there are 2 dozen players in matches. Same in War Thunder, I rarely deal with desync issues even with dozens of planes flying about.

 Yes, I do understand that I can't directly compare PoE to other online multi-player games as the level of control that the server requires is different per game. Yes, I know that GGG has gone to great lengths to prevent client side cheat hacks by making all decisions on the server and then updating the client. Yes, the tight server controlling of PoE leads to more desync and other games can afford to offload some of that to the client. Yes, some games trade no cheats for less desync. However I do feel if a commercial game engine was economically available to GGG at the start such as the Unreal Engine that desync would be much less today (too late now to start over).

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lagwin1980 a écrit :

I assume you mean the thread made by scrotiemc, the one where the dev went through his ideas and told him that it wouldn't make a difference and in some cases make desync worse...because thats what came out of that thread if i remember right.

I'm not sure. Can't remember who the OP of that thread was. You're probably right though as I doubt there would be many similar threads in existence. My point, though, is that saying "lalalala, physics can't be beaten no matter what, physics OPOP" isn't relevant because it isn't the source of the current problem, poorly optimised netcode is. And that can be fixed, even if not easily.

There was an app out that worked with PoE to tidy up it's file structure. You might go looking in tech support for that. If you're getting progressively worse and worse, it might be due to files becoming disorganized.

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Arrowneous a écrit :

 No game has 0 desync

I think this is important, in that no one expects zero desync.

Most of us just expect something other than the worst fucking desync around.

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jdilly23 a écrit :

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Arrowneous a écrit :

 No game has 0 desync

I think this is important, in that no one expects zero desync.

Most of us just expect something other than the worst fucking desync around.

I play LoL and it has 0 desynch. %100 desynch free. And if you have a semi decent connection (<70ms) no lag problem either.

And this is from a game where you play with other 9 players in the same map. PoE has so many features that are put into the game without considering whether the engine can handle or not. It is practically designed in a single-player game mindset.

Remove all the clutter on the ground, widen doorways, corridors, make large obstacles more defined in terms of objectbox, increase stun treshhold and duration then tie it to certain skills/attacks instead of all hits, put a cap on speed where mobility actions can not be spammed faster than game communicates with server. And you will notice VERY considerable drop in desynch. Some people call it dumbing down the game, but to me a game where I can not apply manual actions in a reliable manner is already in its dumbest state.